1 LIGHTLY EDITED FILE Minnesota Outdoor Recreation Task Force Meeting Minnesota Department of Natural Resources Remote CART July 21, 2020 9:00 a.m. - 12:00 p.m. * * * * * This text is being provided in a lightly edited draft format, and is the work product of the CART captioner. Any reproduction, publication, or other use of this CART file without the express written consent of the captioner is strictly prohibited. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility, and this lightly edited CART file may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. Due to the live nature of the event, some names and/or terms may be misspelled. This text may also contain phonetic attempts at sounds and words that were spoken and environmental sounds that occurred during the event. * * * * * CART Provided by Jayne Carriker, RPR, CRR, CRC Paradigm Reporting & Captioning, a Veritext Company 612.339.0545 captioning-paradigm@veritext.com 2 >> Good morning, everyone. This is Andrew Korsberg here. I don't know if you saw, there's a message in the chat. Gratia unfortunately is not feeling well today so I'm going to be filling in. Just to get us started, it looks like we have 15 panelists, so maybe we'll just wait a minute to see if there are any stragglers having issues to log in, and then we'll get started. Welcome again, everyone. I think -- it's 2 after, 2 minutes after, so I think that's maybe -- and we have a few more people so I think we'll get started. Welcome to the second day of the -- of our third meeting, third gathering time. We're going to hear from two -- two of our breakout groups and then have kind of a general conversation afterwards. I'm going to first pass it to Randolph to give a little introduction from his perspective. >> Okay. Let me start my video. Hey, everybody. Good morning. I just want to thank everyone, like Andrew said, for 3 rejoining us for our second consecutive day discussing SWOT analyses for the five area focus. Today we'll hear from promotion and public awareness as well as stewardship and conservation. I wanted to give a quick shoutout to our DNR team right now, Gratia, Ariel, Andrew, Erika and Madison. They do a ton of work behind the scenes for this task force, and I can't thank them enough for setting up these meetings and working with us on a weekly basis. So just briefly, and then I'll pass it back to Andrew. Right now we're about four months into an eight-month project. We're entering the heart of the conversation. Intellectually this is a really exciting time, but it can also be frustrating and discouraging. If we were using the diamond model of public participation, we would be entering what is known as the groan zone which is a policy-making transition from divergence to convergence. We've begun piling up these problems and opportunities on the table with the various Ws and Os in our SWOT analysis and the future work of analysis and synthesis. Can appear daunting and it likely will be, which is the case in a lot of these -- these team-based policy-making opportunities. 4 But we'll work through it as a team. We have an amazing group of thinkers on this task force around the issues of outdoor recreation, equity, economic development, health. We really look forward to seeing what the next few months hold in terms of collaboration and ultimately identifying a set of recommendations to further enhance outdoor recreation in Minnesota. So yeah, this is really exciting point to be in this process, and I can't wait to hear from both teams today and then we'll start the -- we'll start the real work of synthesis and moving towards convergence. So with that, Andrew, I'll pass it back to you. Thanks again. >> Andrew: Thanks, Randolph. So just sort of a housekeeping note, if anyone has any technical difficulties as we proceed to reach out to Madison or myself or Gratia. She's sitting on the call but like I mentioned before isn't feeling well. You can use the chat function to raise your hand or ask any questions. When speaking, please state your name and then indicate when you're finished. And then feel free to use your camera as you'd like and 5 then to mute your mic obviously when you're not speaking. And then notes for the public, if you're -- if you have any comments, you can enter them into the public Q and A portion or under the chat function, and then we will -- we have a place in the agenda at the end of the day where we'll go over any comments we receive for the day. So with that I think we'll go on to the promotion and public awareness group. >> Hi, good morning, everybody. This is Joe Henry with Lake of the Woods Tourism, and if you can hear me please raise your hand so I have the validation. >> We can hear you. >> Excellent. So let me start out. We have a wonderful group. I'll introduce our work group members. You know, first off Stephen Regenold is with Gear Junkie. Mark Norquist with Modern Carnivore. Aaron Hautala with Cuyuna Lakes Mountain Bike Crew, and of course Megan Christianson with Visit Grand Rapids. You know, it's interesting. When we talk about promotion and public awareness when 6 it comes to outdoor recreation or anything in life, regardless of what mission you have, regardless of what demographic you're trying to reach, regardless of what message you're trying to get across, if the people can't hear or see your message, it's not going to be effective. You could have the very, very best message and do the best research in the world, but if you're not getting through to the people you need to get through to, none of it matters. So it's very very important from an outdoor recreation perspective for the state of Minnesota that we have our ducks in a row when it comes to promotion and public awareness, and that's why we broke down the topic in a SWOT analysis. So we're going to review the SWOT analysis today. I'm going to give our promotion and public awareness work group members the opportunity just to comment and such, and then we're going to open it up to the larger group to make comments, certainly ask any questions and just have a good discussion. So with that let's jump into the SWOT analysis. If you would please move the slide. Thank you. Okay. 7 So let's start with strengths. As you read the SWOT analysis, I'm just going to give a little bit of an overview and let you read the points on your own. You know, with strengths with wide support and enthusiasm for outdoor reaction obviously Minnesota is blessed with a very strong infrastructure for promotion and public awareness of the outdoors. It starts at the grassroots level where hundreds of organizations and tens of thousands of individuals, newsletters, social media, publications, video and more to promote events, news, opportunities, and challenges and issues regarding outdoor recreation in the state. Secondly, media coverage of video of outdoor recreation is strong including major newspapers, digital publications, certainly video and TV. And then finally Minnesota has support from several governmental agencies including Explore Minnesota, the DNR, convention and visitor bureaus around the state and many others to serve as bull horns for the promotion and public awareness within the state. Let's slide over to weaknesses. Despite the state's engaged populous and promotion and public awareness of Minnesota, it is not without its weaknesses. 8 The broad nature of outdoor recreation and the many diverse interests in the state makes cohesive messaging a challenge. State agencies like Explore Minnesota are spread thin and tasked to communicate about hundreds of activities and thousands of destinations around the state. Further the state DNR and Explore Minnesota both are tasked with communicating information to promote on similar topics and destinations as well as creating a potential for overlap. As far as budget goes, the dollars for tourism promotion and other marketing allocated from the Minnesota state government is absolutely disproportionate we believe to some neighboring other states. Finally many of the means of communication are outdated including our reliance on paper maps, PDFs and non-mobile websites. Let's slide over to opportunities. We believe huge opportunities exist to improve and amplify practices. Right now the COVID era has outdoor recreation numbers absolutely booming. We'll reach new demographics and new types of outdoor users. One route towards improved communication is via the 9 formation of a new statewide entity with singular focus on promoting the outdoors. This could be a Minnesota outdoor industry group. It could be a state outdoor office. It could be an advisory board. A major goal would be to build more cohesive messages around Minnesota outdoors and create messaging and marketing plans with segmentation that can more tangibly serve user groups. Finally unifying the outdoor recreation space by pulling groups of people together will give the outdoors more of a voice in St. Paul with the government to further establish the elected -- with the elected the narrative that the outdoors and tourism has a similar work, value and fiscal return on investment as, for instance, mineral extraction, forest industry, agriculture, major league sports and other economic drivers. Let's slide on to threats. Be it private or public spheres, there are a lot of cooks in the kitchen. And incentives are often confused or misaligned. The wheels turn slowly within state government and any plan for fast change will likely hit a wall. This is unfortunate as the surge in interest around the outdoors may wain before methods are implemented. 10 The traditional groups like hunters are aging. This is a threat to the future of the outdoors in this state and of course unless we communicate better to a new and interested younger generation, we're going to miss the opportunity. So in a nutshell, that's kind of what we came up for our SWOT analysis. You have the opportunity first to read the graphic on the screen. With that I want to open it up to the promotion and public awareness work group to give some color commentary, so folks, if you'd like to jump in, this is your time. >> Hey, guys. Stephen here. Thanks, Joe. That was a great breakdown, and I guess I don't have a ton to add other than like all the other focus areas with these SWOT analysis, this is very broad, and we tried to get really concrete in some areas and more thematic in other areas and just define the current state of promotion on kind of all of its levels from individuals to social media to major media to state agencies, and I think for me personally the takeaway is just that there's a ton of opportunity to reach a 11 younger new audience -- a younger and new audience I should say with some simple things and maybe some comprehensive large things, but kind of as we dug into this just some of the mechanics around going to a website that is not friendly for downloading a PDF, trying to figure out where to go for a trail head. There's a lot of friction to get into some of these outdoor activities and places, but I think it's kind of an easy solve. And so there's some low hanging fruit in our analysis, and then there's sort of this major thing which I think several groups have identified that there's just not a cohesive voice for outdoor recreation in the state. There's tens of thousands passionate groups in media and social media but it's just very disparate. So I think a big question mark is do we need that cohesive collective voice that amplifies everybody's messaging or will it turn into this vague communication, and we didn't come to a conclusion on that. But I was kind of a personal participant in about ten different activities and passions, I tend to get my information from sort of the grassroots, the smaller organizations, the individuals, and then if I'm going camping with my family, I'll look at a state agency or a larger organization that might give information. 12 So it is disparate how you get your information, how this -- how anything about the outdoors is promoted, but I feel like -- personally I feel like some sort of cohesive voice is needed in this state that will better corral all of the information and the individuals involved with outdoor recreation. So that is my input. Thanks for listening. >> Great job, Stephen. Others? >> Hey, Joe. Aaron Hautala here. >> Hello. >> Aaron from Cuyuna and I think the same thing agreement to what Stephen said and the only thing I would add to that maybe it's a personal desire but a personal desire to speak to our residents as much as we speak to people who don't live here because we've at least personally seen it here when we can let people who live here know what they have in their backyard and spend a focus on that to educate and entertain them toward it, the chance of them doing it increases greatly and then a threat to the youth not having interest in outdoor rec drops significantly as well. So it's been easy to always focus outward, outward, out 13 of state, whatever, but it's like, boy, if we could not focus everything on us, but a lot on us and educate us as to all the benefits and all the things we have that don't necessarily have to take tons of money to do. And if we can have our own residents, however that would be, fall in love with our state first, I think their voice would be more powerful than any voice we could ever pay to get our message farther out outside of the boundaries of Minnesota. That's it, Joe. >> Great commentary. Thank you. Mark or Megan, would you like to add anything? >> Hey, Joe, this is Mark Norquist with Modern Carnivore. I'll just echo what everyone has said. We had some really good conversations about the complexity of these issues, but the unified takeaway I think at the end of the day is as was just stated is really that alignment of diverse outdoor activities under a common theme and message. And that doesn't mean that anyone is going to give up their identity. I think it's just looking for those commonalities that unify the outdoor recreational message, and I think what 14 that's going to do is really communicate the value of this unified outdoor recreation experience, which is obviously good looking at funding in discussions in St. Paul and elsewhere. But it also provides an opportunity to really cross promote opportunities for the outdoor user. They may be doing one thing, but there's a peripheral opportunity to do something else, and I think not only from an outdoor land management conservation perspective but also a tourism perspective, there's real opportunity to engage people in a lot of diverse activities, which is a strength that we have here. >> Great comments, Mark. Thank you. Megan, anything you want to add? Okay. Hearing none, I'll reiterate, too, one of the things we said is a big part of this is like a lot of areas is budget, and in order to get budget, you know, we're thinking that a lot of these different niche interests have to pull together so we have a larger voice in St. Paul, which hopefully would increase our budget and allow us to reach more people eventually. So with that being said I'm going to open it up to the larger group. 15 Any comments, any questions in regards to promotions and public awareness concerning outdoor recreation in Minnesota? >> Yeah, hey, Joe, this is J.R. from Polaris. I think you guys nailed this on the head. This is really well put together, number one. Number two, I think about the -- you know, you really focus a lot on policymakers which I think is great because I think if, you know, John or Commissioner Stromman were to go out and spend some time with their colleagues in other states particularly in our region, I think what they would find is these other states are looking at opportunities to pull Minnesotans to their markets to experience outdoor recreation and to keep their own at home. And I think that it's important for us to think about it in those terms as well. How do we do a better job of competing regionally if not nationally and maybe even internationally with our border to Canada to encourage people to experience the outdoors. And I think one of the challenges that we're going to have but it's also one of the opportunities as you connect the dots in your SWOT analysis is leverage that unified voice in some sort of creative endeavor to get 16 policymakers to think in new and different ways, reach new and different customers and recognize that as they look at investments in outdoor recreation, they can't just think in terms of their own district. They need to understand that there is a strategic objective around outdoor recreation and the fiscal, environmental and health and wellness benefit that it can provide to our state and that as they make their votes on investments, they have an obligation but their colleagues also have an obligation to them to understand that their votes matter in terms of how investments are made. So, for instance, if a legislator in the 7-county metro area maybe on a myriad of issues is of completely different thinking as their colleagues but on outdoor recreation there's this interconnectiveness between the regions of our state that needs to be amplified and the importance of this amplified to make sure that this strategic objective of outdoor recreation is properly funded as you highlighted. So I think there's a real opportunity here. I think you captured it really well in kind of the way you broke down your SWOT analysis that I really appreciate and just tremendous job. >> Thank you, J.R. 17 Appreciate it. Very good comments. Others? >> This is Lynnea. >> Good morning. >> Good morning. I would second the first comment made about just the thoroughness. One thing that I wonder about in taking a look at this is the first bullet under opportunities, reaching new type of outdoor users, one of the things that the clubs I'm a part of have struggled with is just getting recognized by industry, by agencies, and have just found it really difficult, and so one of the things that I wonder for this group is, are you aware of -- are members of the group and folks aware of the number of non-white culturally specific organizations and clubs that are interested in fishing, hunting, outdoor activities. When I last researched this topic, I found 40 in the state of Minnesota and that was a shock to me, and I spent maybe a couple hours just doing Google searches to do that. And in conversations with the industries I'm involved in, that was a huge surprise to them, and they had no 18 idea. And so one of the things that I think about is that it's not just new users, but it's the recognizing the outdoor users that we've been ignoring for a long time. And we kind of get into this narrative of who our customers are, that's based on research that maybe around sales, but it's pretty limited research. And some of the research the met council has done, it gives reasons why diverse populations, for example, don't travel to regional parks is they just don't know about them. So that awareness piece is huge and focusing on our local residents, I would like to amplify that is super important. But one of the things I just think is important when doing things like a SWOT analysis is to be as explicit as possible about the opportunities or you run the risk of missing them. And so I just would really encourage thinking kind of explicitly around what are those groups that we've failed to see and recognize, how are we engaging with them and promoting and public awareness of what they are doing, and then you can see where are the gaps. I think one other piece that I would just share is that we know these disparities in engagement lead us to lose 19 about 16 billion a year in GDP in our state just in Minnesota. And so there's this tremendous opportunity there by leaning into promoting with different cultural groups in their communities, and then also promoting safety, and this is becoming more and more important. I sit on advisory group for a large resort in -- it's a private religious group, but this is something that's come up for them, and in our own travels we've seen it come up in the last couple years is people not feeling safe traveling into parts of Minnesota that they don't live in. So I think promoting safety and helping industry know how important that is will be another big opportunity, and if we don't, I think that's where you can see people really losing interest. They want to be outside, but they need to know it's safe for them, emotionally safe and physically safe, not from injury while fishing or something like that, but from other users, and we're seeing an increase in problems around that nationally and unfortunately locally as well, and I believe it is ultimately a safe place, but it's really important to have people promote that it is and what kind of a culture and a climate we want to have in our outdoor space. 20 Thank you. >> Great comments, and one thing I would say is are we reaching those groups that you speak of, Lynnea, and I would guess in many cases probably not. I think it's probably one of those things where you don't know what you don't know, and I think that's one of the great opportunities of getting a group like this together. Imagine if this group would get together and talk about a certain outdoor activity and do a stakeholder model. Think of the a-hahs that might come up that will benefit potentially everybody, so I think it's a great opportunity. The safety you speak of, are you talking about safety actually doing the activity like fishing or biking or hunting or are you talking about safety traveling outside the metro area with people of color? >> Sure. So yep to the latter. So safety traveling to those activities or participating in them in remote areas. So whether it's things like having other users yell racial slurs at you if you're on a mountain bike trail or unfortunately this didn't happen in our state but did happen in -- to a friend just recently where a noose was 21 hung outside their camping spot at a federal campground. And, you know, having, you know, one of the things that I think is for women also -- so this isn't just an issue for people of color but women as well in the outdoors experiencing -- if you're at a campground and you have local campers next to you that are really rowdy and drinking a lot or other things, you don't feel that safe. You know people aren't in their best minds, you know, under those circumstances. We've probably all had that rowdy camper at a park camp kind of situation. [No audio] and that triggers a whole different level of threat. But I would also say -- so that's one piece. Another thing in managing -- I managed a nature center in west Bloomington, the Richardson nature center, and I think this is one of your comments made earlier. We were in a topography that just did not work with cell phones, so you could be maybe half a mile from the parking lot and your cell phone wouldn't work and you couldn't find if the trails weren't marked well or we had people get lost regularly, and they panic. So I think the other part is there is some aspects about this that also relate to I think everybody being more 22 reliant on being able to find where they're going using their cell phone and not as reliant on paper maps or being able to read a paper map. They're used to now especially younger generations plugging in their destination and having it point arrows when they're going the right way and that I did see created a lot of anxiety for folks on our trails especially again folks who just weren't comfortable being out individually on their own or were people with children and things like that, so I think that there are some aspects of that that also gets to that piece about how do we have maps that aren't just -- that are interactive and that can aid people in getting from one place to another. I'd like to have everybody be able to read a map and know their north, west, east and south, but unfortunately I think that time is behind us. We can be rueful for that, but I don't know that it will get us what we really want, which is just more people outside. >> Great comments. Other comments? >> Hi, this is Molly from University of Minnesota. I really resonated with what Lynnea was talking about and I think one of the opportunities along with trying 23 to get more people outdoors and then trying to promote the utilization of parks that aren't being used so much would be coming back to that school partnership premise where you're partnering with local schools to kind of get kids out into nature centers or regional parks that aren't used as much and then that kind of puts things on the radar for parents and families that may not were aware that these parks were available in their neighborhood or the city areas and try to convince people that that was a really fun activity for kids and maybe it's something they can do on the weekends. So kind of putting things on the radar with school partnerships would be a good idea to inspire people to get out there. Places like Gooseberry Falls maybe don't but maybe some of the more regional parks [audio feedback] >> Great comments. It depends on the area a person represents. It could be parks or ATVs or mountain biking or fishing the lake of the woods. We all have different niches that we actually are a part of as well and there's a whole myriad of things out there that would be good to introduce you to and start getting a more outside I guess than doing the video games as much inside that we all hear about. 24 Okay. Other comments? Those are really good. Reactions, concerns? How is Minnesota doing currently? Okay. You know what, hearing none I'll turn it back to the moderator. >> This is Randolph. I just want to make sure everyone had a chance to ask a question before I jumped in. I'm curious of the group and the sub-team or the task force when it comes to promotion of outdoor recreation, are there models of other states that folks know of that do this activity well that we can kind of look to as a model for promotion? I'd be curious to know what states kind of get this right. >> I'll just make one comment on that. I'm not going to comment on other states but it's interesting when you compare state to state because a lot of it has to do with, you know, what do you have available for your state. For instance, Minnesota maybe doesn't have mountains but boy, do we have the lakes and many other things to 25 promote, right? The trails and da da da da. Number one is each state promoting what they have, but I think the other thing that's important is every state has a different promotions budget, and it's interesting to see how that works. You know, at one point in time within the last few years did you know that the state of Minnesota tourism was outspent by the area of Wisconsin Dells? So it's changing a little bit now, but without that horsepower behind it it's hard to -- but there are a lot of very good examples that I know some of the people in our group have spoken to other states so if anybody has any comments. >> This is Sarah Milligan-Toffler from the Children and Nature Network, can you hear me? >> Yep. >> Hi there, sorry. I was having trouble connecting to audio before. Thank you for your presentation and I wanted to just make one quick comment about your SWOT analysis and wanted to actually, you know, kind of echo what Lynnea was saying and also make sure that we understand that the safety of black, indigenous and other people of color isn't just traveling out of state. 26 I was with a friend playing tennis in south Minneapolis when somebody riding by on a bike made a racial slur to my friend that I was playing tennis with. So yeah, it can happen anywhere. So I think I would just really echo that I hope that coming out of this, this group can -- we can really create a culture of inclusivity and not really have power with people that are going to exclude some groups from enjoying what belongs to all of us. So just wanted to reiterate that. I also wanted to just comment on your threats and challenges, youth not having the interest in outdoor recreation. I guess I'd take issue with the word "interest," and I don't know if that -- with the Children and Nature Network, we certainly are aware of the trends of the decrease in participation in all manner of outdoor and nature-based activities by young children, and that's across racial groups and economic groups. But I don't know that it's an interest factor. I think that there are some other pieces. I think we should start from the standpoint that human beings have a natural inclination to want to be connected to the natural world and it's our job as adults to figure out how to make that possible. 27 It's like I guess -- a little feedback on the wording on that challenge or that threat. I do know -- to your question, I do know that the state of Colorado, again, they had a fairly big budget but there are some interesting things to look at in their generation wild promotion that really sought to create excitement and help people understand why it's so important to get kids outside, and it had a really fun, you know, sort of branding to it, and so that might be one to look at if you're not familiar with that. And that's it. Thank you. >> Hey, Joe. >> I have a comment on the question by I believe it was Randolph about the states and kind of examples. I mean this might be a little bit all over the place, but I think each state is really unique and some are very weighted toward one type of outdoor activity or geography or demographic or just location. So Minnesota is really unique, and we have just four distinct seasons and so many passionate user groups and somewhat diverse geography, but also not dramatic geography and not oceans and mountains and not sort of a national -- a draw from a national or international audience that outweighs regional or local travels. 28 So we're a unique place, and we're not Utah with the national parks and deserts. We're not Colorado with its world-class skiing. We're more like I think a Maine or a Vermont or a Wisconsin where there's just a diverse and kind of from the grassroots really passionate outdoor place people, and I think there is -- in my head there is a big question mark. Like does it make sense to cohesively communicate about our outdoors recreation opportunities here. I think it does on some level, but I don't know how granular we get because there's just so many different interests and people to talk to. One other comment is just that I do feel like -- I'm with gear junkie and I'm very much into the gear products design and retail and that's kind of my world, and in other states including Oregon, Utah, Colorado, even the bay area, there's really more of a voice with the industry and that includes manufacturers, gear designers, retailers, bike shops, even maybe that seeps into tourism and resorts. There's more of a collective voice in associations that help promote and make the public aware of that part of the outdoor recreation industry. Minnesota lacks that completely. 29 There's no cohesive voice in the industry, so it might be too big of a task to corral everything about outdoor recreation into some sort of macro messaging, but maybe there are segments like this gear industry for example that we could work to at least build some framework around pulling together sort of a bigger collective voice. And my final point is I think there's a real difference between like statewide campaigns like pier Michigan or some of the work Colorado has done around skiing or whatever, Utah national parks, that's one form of promotion and public awareness that's really macro and it's about the outdoors, but it's -- on the other hand, as I mentioned earlier, it's maybe what we focus on could be much more just reaching these groups like Lynnea and others have mentioned like building an app or building more of whatever a Instagram centric source of information. It could be really pretty mechanics like that instead of themes is kind of what I'm getting at. Yeah, that's what I got. Thanks, guys. >> Hey, Joe, real quick. This is J.R. again from Polaris. On the point that Stephen just made. 30 We as non-profits or private businesses, you know, we're providing some feedback to policymakers about how they need to make more investments, but I also think there's an opportunity here to encourage state government and other stakeholders inside the agencies to leverage private industry in the non-profit community to get the message out there of the outdoors instead of us just saying they need to do more. I think the partnership piece is really important here. So for instance, we have a myriad of organizations both non-profit and private on the call who have what I'll just call an installed base of customer, so those installed base of customer have regular interaction with the manufacturers like Stephen just talked about, for instance, Polaris might have an installed base of customer who we communicate with regularly through our social channels. What about working to create partnerships that push the messages of the outdoors that really resonate from the state level, the policy maker level out into the installed base of customers to each of these organizations to enhance the reach and scope of what's available for outdoor recreational opportunities. It's organizations like Lynnea's, Youthprize, you know, pushing those messages out to those organizations if 31 they're willing to do it to talk about what's available and how to do it safely and how to encourage youth to participate and expose them to safety education and things like that, whether it's an ATV safety class or a hunting and fishing class or, you know, whatever it is. I think there's a great opportunity there. And then finally the point I would maybe add to with Stephen is -- and maybe this is directed towards John Edman too a little bit is I have seen the pier Michigan ads on television here. I think anybody who has driven northwest on I-94 sees multiple billboards from states like North Dakota and Montana and Wyoming who are really targeting Minnesotans to recreate there. And so while I think there's some question about the effectiveness of that, I'm not an expert in that space, I know that they're actively doing it and it's not just one, there are multiples, and they're doing it year over year over year, and I'm wondering how they justify the value proposition there to do that and then maybe through continued discussion would raise the point with the staff and John help this team better understand what we're doing if at all akin to what those other states are doing to encourage Minnesotans to come to their state. 32 Thanks. >> Thank you. All very good comments. You know, it is interesting, I'll just make a comment too that, you know, I work very closely with Explore Minnesota Tourism and it's interesting because they have so many activities and so many areas to promote with this much money, you know, and it's hard because the message in some cases gets watered down and even think about all the interests on this phone call right now. And when it's all said and done, we all have our own interests we want to get across, and we all see different opportunities, but they all take resources. They take money and effort and sweat equity. They take people putting an organized group together and I think that's going to be one of our opportunities and challenges as an overall group is to help prioritize where do we start, what areas do we go after and where -- [feedback]. And please mute your mic if you're not speaking. We have some background noise. John, did you want to comment on the last -- >> Yeah, Joe, thank you very much for all of your efforts and everybody's comments. I just want to react to a couple of comments that were 33 made, first of all, in terms of what other states are doing. One of the reasons you're seeing a lot of other states here targeting Minnesota is just we are the -- we're such a large media market. A lot of states that are nearby that you see advertising, the North Dakota, the Montanas, the Colorados, they pick certain geographies where there's a huge media presence and if you look at Minnesota and surrounding states there really isn't that big of a media center other than Minneapolis St. Paul in the surrounding states, so it's a great way to reach a lot of people. That's why you see those states targeting Minnesota. Now, we primarily with our general campaign target Minnesota and the surrounding states, but one of the big things that I'm seeing, Joe, from your group here that I think there's some incredible opportunities on is sort of the segmentation or what we call niches, and that's what we started to do last year is frankly as opposed to just picking a geography that we're going to target Chicago, we're going to target Omaha, whatever, Milwaukee, we can come up with this digital campaign essentially and when somebody is interested in mountain biking, I don't care if they're located in Indianapolis 34 or if they're located in Boise, Idaho. It doesn't matter. If they have the interest, then we have the product that we could reach them with. And our return on investment on that has been larger than any general campaign that we've ever done. So I see as an opportunity there, you know, we've done some of those very specific niches and some are dealing with the outdoors, but there's opportunities to go much, much further there if we really want to raise the awareness of the state. And the reason a lot of these states like Minnesota does focus on the non-resident -- and that's what we did in the past. That's not what we're doing now. Now with the pandemic we're focusing primarily on Minnesota. But you try to bring in those new tax dollars to say that's what they're charged to do in order to raise the awareness of the hospitality industry. And another thing I want to say in regard to a comment earlier, I don't know if it was J.R. or whoever that made that comment about partnerships with the private sector. That is something that I really see as a huge opportunity. 35 Sometimes it's a challenge to do that but whether it's the people on this call representing the Polaris and the Winnebagos they have customers interested in product in Minnesota and they have reach. We have reach as well to promote those businesses and I thing sometimes those are a challenge to put together but there's just tremendous opportunities there, we've done some of that in the past, but I see that as a huge opportunity moving forward. >> Awesome. Thank you. >> I -- this is Lynnea, and really quick I want to answer that question because it's a really great one, and I love hearing what folks are coming up to. I think the national park service particularly on the East Coast had real challenges with overall participation in a big part because the changing demographics were just really not interested in what they were offering, and they've been going through a major reinvention as a result of that and have had tremendous success, so I think that's one example to look to. And I'm sure there are a number of people on the call from the DNR, but I don't think they toot their horn about this enough, but the "I can" series and some of 36 the research they've done around their promotional campaigns and ability to attract underrepresented populations in women and young people is just a really great case study and a huge success story that we should be really paying attention to especially when you look at the cost versus the benefit and the outcomes. The return on investment is just tremendous. I also want to just share a quick example of a privately owned business that I think took this on themselves. Trail Center is a restaurant on the Gun Flint Trail located about 30 miles outside of Grand Marais, and they had a lot of issues with fights between users, and they put together a campaign years and years ago inside their store, but it really made for a super inclusive environment, and as I've taken numbers and numbers of, I don't know, probably over 100 people up the Gun Flint Trail over the years, they all notice it, diverse people, and it has really made it a place that people will talk about as being one of their favorite places to visit in the state. And so I think that there are things that private businesses can do to promote that culture, that one of -- and I can't remember who mentioned this earlier, but create that culture of inclusiveness that that transcends if you're talking between dog sledders or 37 snowmobilers or different ethnic groups in the outdoors that expectation for inclusion and a private space saying, hey, you want to be here, this is what we accept, set trends, and it didn't hurt their business at all. If anything, it grew it and made it more sustainable. >> Cool example. Thanks. Others? >> Hey, Joe, it's Mark Norquist again. I just wanted to follow up on the conversation regarding partnerships and I think what I would call the micro niching of messaging promotion. There's a lot of discussion we've had around the big campaign state level, come to our state. We all see them whether it's the Dakotas, Montana or Wyoming are the big ones. And as John had mentioned, those are intentionally done to this -- within this market because of our density. The reality is, though, I think in terms of looking at all of the different diverse activities, there would never be a -- enough budget to promote all of those things with state-level funding, and so I think that is where partnerships, public, private partnerships are the only way that we're going to be able to accomplish that, 38 and I think historically my personal experience has been there's been I think obstacles to that whether it's concern over how that works and in terms of showing let's say favoritism to data privacy concerns and those types of challenges. And that's what I think we need to figure out is how can we eliminate those barriers so that public/private partnerships work and the opportunity to promote the diversity of outdoor recreation in the state. You know, state and public and private working together, and so I think that is of paramount importance in that space. >> Mark, mainly with the state organizations just being very, very careful about that I would assume. >> Yeah, correct. So when I think of different scenarios in the past, so I with Modern Carnivore represent a small business within the state, it's all around education and getting more people getting connected to hunting and fishing. There are definitely challenges when it comes to, again, data privacy. Really good reasons why those concerns are there obviously, but they do become impediments at times I think to partnering. I think there are other things also, and I think it's 39 just one of those scenarios whereas a group and as state agencies we should look at how do we make it easier for those partnerships to work in promotion because there's a wealth of opportunity that I think is really untapped. >> Joe: Win-wins, right? >> Mark: Exactly. >> Joe: Super. I think we're getting close to our time limit here. I don't know if you want to take it from here. Are there other comments I should ask? Anybody want to chime in at the very end here? You know what, great discussion. Thank you very much, and I'll turn it over. >> Thanks, Joe. Next up I think then is the stewardship group. And I don't know exactly who is the -- >> It's me. Elliott Christensen. Good morning, everybody. I just want to start off a little introduction about the group. We had a small group, and it was an amazing little group, and so our SWOT analysis is kind of big because I didn't want to sort past anybody from the group and I wanted to put all the information out here because for 40 me personally this is kind of what everyone hinges on because without stewardship, proper stewardship and conservation, our quality and quantity of outdoor recreation opportunities goes away. [Audio feedback] So this was something that was very important to me, so I'll just dive in here and go over briefly through each section. So with strengths, we went ahead and -- we broke it down into sections and kind of grouped everything together. Section one here is great NGOs that promote conservation and stewardship. Has some examples there. Many strong outdoor organizations and associations that promote conservation. We're a great state, great agencies with a history of stewardship. And in section II, a wealth of clean water and forests that support a diverse wildlife ecosystem. Also outdoor recreation opportunities. And section III, put together, Minnesota has a legacy of taking care of natural spaces, values outdoors, we're a volunteering and donating state. And then with our section IV, comprehensive data on local, state and federal land in Minnesota. 41 Historical license and fee trends. And that kind of rounds out what we did for our strengths, and then for our weaknesses, we also broke these down into sections that were kind of similar. Section I, politicalization of conservation, section II, backlogs of needs for maintaining recreational infrastructure, decaying outdoor recreation infrastructure, capital planning for maintenance. Section III, lack of diverse voices to stand up for our recreational resources and infrastructure. Section IV, we put together, no way to do outreach and push best practices to groups or communities around stewardship. No database exists of stewardship opportunities. STP, same ten people seem to volunteer their time and talents. Section V, as a user group it's more like a land grab, get everything you can before someone else gets it. Too many silos of individual groups doing their own thing and sometimes competing against each other. Do we understand how users impact other users. Are we planning for users to not impact each other and still use the land and space to the most of its potential. And that rounds out the weaknesses. 42 Opportunities, we have -- we again put it in sections. To align groups towards a common vision for the future of outdoor recreation and stewardship of the wild places here in Minnesota. Promote best practices in how groups can best get involved in stewardship on a statewide level. Utilize groups and communities to steward Minnesota's outdoor recreation product to ensure it stays world class. Section II, connecting stewardship to lower fees, licenses or other outdoor opportunities. To involve conservation funding shortfalls. To think creatively about how these priorities get funded in the future. Section III, to purposely place the right outdoor adventure in the right outdoor amenity that serves the people who are closest to that location, understanding barriers, listening, cultural and finances, inclusion, invitation to participate if we knew who to invite. Section IV, create a state office of recreation economy to help coordinate stewardship efforts. Create a plan for stewardship and stewardship funding to help promote and fund it. Lastly our threats and challenges is all one big section. 43 Hunting and fishing is a majority funding source for conservation. If we do nothing, the natural spaces we want to recreate in, promote and utilize as an economic driver will be at risk of being lost. Finding a common theme or plan to work together on. COVID, revenue reductions or decline in volunteering. And we've got loss of focus in educational systems, what is a wetland, for instance, loss of public land, balance of people and infrastructure. Not all Minnesotans view outdoor recreation as contributing to quality of life. There is no process or clear path on how to do something on behalf of a state property or recreation amenity. Overuse of natural resources can lead to destruction of resources. That kind of rounds out our strengths and challenges. I'd like to open it up to members of our group, anybody like to add anything at this time? >> This is Mary, and I'm totally in agreement with everything Elliott said. We had a great group. Stewardship and conservation are so important to maintaining what we have in addition to bringing the equitable access to others. 44 This was not an easy group to pull together. There's so much information as you can see. So our group is small, and I think Hansi is up in the boundary waters. So anybody from the non-group wants to weigh in, we would welcome anybody else's thoughts also. That's all. >> This is Mark again. I was also on this as part of this group. And just to echo what Elliott and Mary were just saying, you know, I think from my perspective as someone who is coming to the table primarily looking at it through the lens of the hunt/fish community or the hook and bullet community but also others. I think there's opportunity if you think about it similar to the promotion and public awareness, I think there's opportunity and need for us to work together around this topic of stewardship and conservation as was highlighted by Elliott in the comments here, you know, within the hunting and fishing community we've been talking for years about the decline in participation and how that is impacting funding and will continue to impact funding as one issue for that. And so I think if there's -- you know, and a common theme here relative to the other group also is how do we 45 get all this rich diverse outdoor recreational users groups, destinations, etc., taking a perspective and a unified approach to how we use these spaces responsibly and make sure we're using them that will create enjoyment today but also opportunity tomorrow for others. >> Hey, everybody, this is Katy Friesz from Winnebago Industries. Appreciate the work in this space and building on Mark's comments. One of the campaigns that I think is successful and really interesting in the breadth of how it can be used is the recreate responsibly campaign and similarly I was thinking about how do we both have that overarching in connection with promotion but also awareness building and kind of getting all audiences to think differently. I think that something that we can collaborate on that has an overarching message and can mean a lot of different things but then applying that to potentially some of the niche marketing or getting specific about how that might look in some of the different ways that folks do choose to be outdoors, so yeah, appreciate all the work and definitely understand the complexity. I do also, you know, to previous points in the previous conversations think that either having the right venue 46 or cross sector collaboration and partnership will be really important and meaningful for us and as we're continuing to learn and have conversations, I do think it's increasingly clear that there are a lot of resources and/or programs and/or groups that are existing that we really should map out so that as the next step we have again sort of that ecosystem map or stakeholder mapping to be able to really be informed and thoughtful as we move ahead. So thanks again for the great work. >> Just going to jump back in here a little bit. We -- I don't know if there's anybody else here -- [indiscernible] -- but 30 years ago I can remember what this place was, and it is not anything what it is now because I think we get overlooked out here because we have so much farmland which has been an agriculture farmland which has polluted our lakes and turned the Minnesota River into one of the most polluted rivers in the country. And it's really important. I think progression and economic growth and utilizing our resources is important and we should be able to share that with everybody, but let's make sure too on the other hand that there's a concerted effort to go ahead and protect those and keep them pristine and so 47 they aren't so negatively affected. Do we have any more questions, thoughts from anybody? >> Elliott, this is Lynnea, and I just want to echo what you just stated about kind of your region of the state. My grandmother lived in Fairfax up until the last year, and it is just -- it's a travesty when kids can't go fishing in their own community and find a fish or walk in a stream without having to be afraid of getting poisoned, and that is the situation for all the bodies of water if I'm not incorrect in that part of the state in particular. So I just want to echo that that we have issues of environmental justice, and I wonder if that might be language to add to your SWOT that impacts rural communities and urban communities where they're pervasive and life-altering pollution impacting people's wellness, their opportunities to recreate and the air they breathe. And we know that that impacts more often in a rural context indigenous communities and communities of color and throughout our state. So I just want to amplify that, and I also wonder about how do we make sure we're -- or is there an opportunity here to talk about through private-public partnerships how do we help people who are already, you know, 48 experiencing either poverty or are in a community that's over impacted by environmental pollutants they're probably dealing with a lot of other issues, how do we help them have a seat at the table and engage them in conversations of stewardship especially when there are parts of maybe the growing population demographics in our state. So we're able to maintain those healthy fishing and hunting lands and healthy communities for folks to live in as we grow and our demographics shift. >> Yeah, Lynnea, this is Mark Norquist again. I think those are all really good points. And one of the things we talked about as a group and I think about a lot is when it comes to stewardship and conservation, one of the challenges with it is it isn't always the easiest thing to address, and it's also not the most fun. I find it fun personally but I think I sort of geek out on these issues. I think the average person looks at this and says, you know, that's not -- I just like going out and doing my activity, and I don't want to think about those more difficult issues. And that's where I think -- and I guess I would throw out to the group, I'd love to hear thoughts, reactions, 49 ideas around the opportunities that we highlighted there to align groups, and I do think again going back to the previous conversation, I think there's real opportunity for partnerships, and this could be both -- this could be both agency as well as NGO, but I do think if there is a way to bring industry and business into this conversation, even though it isn't going to be their first priority, it should be something that they're thinking about, and I think there's a few companies that illustrate that and walk the walk when it comes to conservation and stewardship on a national level. And I think we should look at how do we -- how did those situations occur and how can we replicate that and get more and more partnership and again bring industry into the partner -- into the conservation and stewardship conversation. >> Mark, this is Joe Henry from the Lake of the Woods Tourism. Those are great comments. A good example and I just want to make a comment too. Why do people come to Minnesota to recreate. There are a lot of reasons, right? But one of them is it's the quality of our natural resources. It's not just natural resources. 50 Everybody has natural resources. It might be different, but everybody has them, but to me part of it is the quality of our natural resources and I think it's very important to keep that quality part front and center. To me that's dealing with things like the aquatic invasive species, it's monitoring our woods and our lakes and rivers and streams. Not only for pollution but making sure we're stocking fish when we need to stock fish and keeping them healthy. A good example of the partnerships, the Minnesota DNR did a nice job. We altered our limits of the walleye at the Lake of the Woods. Our limits changed for the winter fishing, so we're getting basically millions of hours of fishing pressure so we adjusted some things so the resources are being checked and they reached out to a number of stakeholders and have a walleye input committee before they went forth with any changes, and I think partnerships like that are great. And because today's fishing pressure up at Lake of the Woods if we have millions of people that come up there -- I shouldn't say millions of people. 51 We have millions of hours of angling pressure with thousands and thousands of people. That creates a lot of garbage on our ice. So we created a committee called keep it clean lead by our local soil and water conservation group and with different stakeholders on it working on ways to promote the idea of keeping things clean, take your garbage with you, when you're driving off the lake, make sure if you have a pickup bed that you secure your garbage first because it blows out. A number of things but my point is it's partnerships working together for a common goal of keeping our resources in check. Without those good resources, we're not going to have as much to talk about. Thank you. >> This is Steve with REI. Just to kind of build on what Mark was saying about the opportunity I think to work with the industry with private and public and non-profits especially for partnerships and towards the improvement of conservation and stewardship. So these -- a lot of organizations have a large reach to their constituents, and their constituents really do want to help. 52 They want to be involved, and it's a matter of getting -- coordinating I guess the resources that they are so willing to give, and again, I agree with the partnership of private and non-profits. There's a lot of non-profits out there who are solely working on the stewardship and conservation piece yet they don't have the resources or like I think someone said the same ten people are working on it, so it's broadening the reach of a lot of people and coordinating the people who really want to help but just don't know how, and it's a challenge to harness those resources. >> Mark, this is Lynnea, and I think one of the things that -- and I think this has happened a couple times through the SWOT. One of the things I want to just encourage folks to think about is really checking their narratives, kind of -- that's one way that we kind of limit our creativity is when we promote and kind of adopt these narratives as reality without kind of checking them. When I have those narratives, what I try to do when I'm thinking about them is do a little research on them and think about it and ask folks, check that narrative whether it's about young people being interested in the outdoors or in this context -- I appreciate it when anyone geeks out about something, it's hard to see that 53 other people care in that same way especially. I'm a non-profit nerd and a couple other types, Star Wars included, it's hard to appreciate how other people might be engaged in things sometimes. But I really do think we're at a time when young people, if you think about the movements that they're a part of right now, the climate strike, that's all about conservation and stewardship, but do we see it like that? It doesn't maybe look like the way that we've traditionally communicated and talked about it, but I have attended a number of the events at the capitol, organized 100% by young people that have tremendous turnout, but are we hearing them? Are we seeing them? Are we saying, wow, how do we get them engaged? Are we going and participating in those activities? They're super organized and building a massive platform. So I think about that. I think about the water is sacred work that's happening in our state in urban areas, and I don't know if this is happening and maybe it's happening also in urban areas throughout the state, not just in the metro area, edible forest is another thing. There's a whole body of work that people are doing 54 around making sure that people have access to in-parkland, to healthy, safe, pesticide-free space and more green space. There's also -- I know a group of young people out in Marshall, Minnesota, who for years have been organizing around having the right to access healthy natural spaces in their community. So I think it's just worth doing some quick Google searches is how I find frankly not to advertise Google, but is how I find a lot of those things and in talking to folks in community. There's so much that communities are doing right now around conservation and stewardship. They're asking for opportunities to get engaged and to be a part, and I don't know that they're being heard because -- maybe because the message is different than what we expect or slightly -- I'm not really sure, but that I think right now is a tremendous time where people are demanding conservation and stewardship. Maybe it's just because they're not the population that historically has been. I don't know. I'm kind of a little surprised by that as I think about it more. >> This is Mark Norquist again. 55 Yeah, I agree. I think there is real opportunity with young people, and I think the connection between conservation and outdoor recreation are so closely connected for a lot of young people that not only is this the type of opportunity where we get the benefit of having clean waters and funding for healthy forests, but it actually is an opportunity to engage people in new and different ways with outdoor recreation. I've got many personal anecdotes of different situations. I'll give you two from the last month. I wear a lot of hats and different NGOs and I'm on the board for back country angelers and hunters in Minnesota and one of our young members brought forward an idea to adopt a highway section the other day so we are doing that. I was out actually doing target practice up in north central Minnesota. Ran into a young member who had been active in previous years and he talked about how there was a lot of trash out in this area and he wanted to put together an event where basically we would get membership to come out and clean it up and he just needed funding for a dumpster and we were like, okay, how do we make that happen. 56 So I think there are all kinds of opportunities to use -- to both focus on stewardship and conservation as a foundational value of the state and an imperative for the future but also an opportunity from a messaging standpoint, and I'll go back to the other group, opportunity to message and engage people, and I think there is real opportunity there, and so I love hearing these ideas and challenge everyone what other opportunities, ideas do you think of. >> So this is Katy, and one of the things that is resonating with me is to Lynnea's point about the moment and to others' points as well thinking about from a corporate responsibility standpoint. So so many of the companies whether large or small in our state are thinking more broadly about all of the environmental, social and governance issues that are most relevant to their companies but also to our broader world. It's really a long-term sustainability, a business sustainability look at the world. So what I do think is really interesting is the convergence of how do we really tap into the power of the youth movement, the power of very community-driven specific solutions as well as thinking about the momentum that companies and, you know, larger 57 corporations as well have in that broader sustainability and corporate responsibility space, so thinking about ways that we can, you know, not just from a funding or philanthropic standpoint but real that deeper business align strategic approach to how the sustainable environments matter to the long-term sustainability of our populations and the quality of life but also our companies and even from a small business perspective or a farmers agricultural perspective, I worked briefly at the mosaic company so had some interaction with some really interesting work led by farmers interested in more sustainable practices. So I think it is -- there is this moment where more and more constituents and stakeholders whether they come to the table in the same way, they don't necessarily, but there is a lot of energy in the different spaces to be able to just really crack that nut in how we can work together to achieve the goals that we all really want to achieve. So, you know, I think the opportunity definitely is there, and it's not easy, but I do think there's a lot of opportunity to be able to make progress in that direction. >> If I can quickly add to Katy's point, this is J.R. from Polaris and the themes from a number of these SWOTs 58 is kind of a coordinated way that we speak about how all of us think of the outdoors and what our expectations are to have a high-quality experience and to maintain that quality over time. And one of the examples that I would share is just, you know, each of us I think who has had exposure to Polaris may come to that brand from a different perspective, but for instance, we -- our Polaris foundation gives to the nature conservancy and national forest foundation in terms of financial investment and product to help pursue their missions, and in and of itself maybe that isn't a material point to the conversation, but I think there's also an opportunity here through some sort of coordinated vision around that there's a lot of this stuff happening that people don't know about. There's a lot of investments that each of us or our organizations are making individually that's kind of insular to our organizations. It's not really amplified outside our companies or basis. And if we collectively as an industry or collectively as a community talk about those things more comprehensively and strategically and put those messages out there to the general public, that it increasingly changes the psychology around what the outdoors is and how it should be thought of and how it should be 59 protected and how users have equal rights to its enjoyment and its benefits. And that if we do a good job and let's say at the end of this there is a task force created that it is more permanent, this is great opportunity for some organization to elevate the conversation around what we all are doing to push this out to the public saying if you're going to participate in the outdoors you have a responsibility because you're surrounding by people who are thinking this way. And sometimes it's a conversation in the outdoors about, you know, in fact I'm really troubled by some of the experiences that Lynnea has had. I've not had those myself. But I'm also a white male, and I perhaps reflect, you know, a lot of the users around me when I do recreate in greater Minnesota, but I also think it's a really unique time in our civic discourse around diversity and inclusion climate and so on and so forth where if we can amplify these voices through some strategic initiative that we can change the narrative about what's expected of people and organizations in a way that we've never really thought of before and really change the psychology of how people recreate in the outdoors and what their level of expectation of social interaction is 60 as well as interaction with the land and the resources. So this is a really great conversation and one I think is really important to our work going forward. >> This is Andrew with DNR. One thing to building on what J.R. said is a really great conversation. One thing that's been really interesting in my experience with DNR and before I worked with the snowmobile program and the cross country ski program is the tremendous amount of trail user groups out there as well as mountain bike groups. So when you think of stewardship in that context, you have these on the ground folks that are doing tons of work to take care of these trails, and that really builds on their sense of stewards ship for the place and sort of ownership and recognition that this is their public land, and so just wanted to add that in as an example of good stewardship too. >> Hey, Andrew, this is Aaron. And from a state point of view having a culture of stewardship and defining what that culture is because to build one for every single user group, maybe we have to, but it would be interesting if there's a statewide culture of stewardship, a statewide culture of how we treat each other outside, you know, to speak to what 61 Lynnea brought up and then from an industry user group volunteer state point of view, collaboration, I think really it might come down to communication, and if we don't communicate, nobody knows and Andrew just mentioned mountain biking but when I started mountain biking I rode in the rain and I rode wherever I wanted because I didn't know and it took a year before I found out, oh, that's not the way you do it and it really comes down to being focused on communication in a servant manner, not in a, hey, don't do that manner but in a servant manner and turning a customer into a potential investigator to take care of the culture of how we treat each other and how we treat the land. And where industry could really help and I failed at this miserably but I tried to work with the major bike manufacturers to start messaging within that on your website in the catalog with the bike when you pick it up that says here's our culture of how we treat the land. And here's the culture of how we treat the trail. That's what IMBA was given but if people don't know about that, it still doesn't work. It seems like those things are in place but it just hasn't been brought together, and that seems like a major opportunity. And that's it. 62 Thanks. >> This is Lynnea. >> Go ahead, Lynnea. >> I just wanted to say, Aaron, I'll be quick. That I'll really inspired by what you just shared. I think working at Youthprize one of the things that we're hearing from young folks is we're not having those conversations with our young people. We're not telling them what's our culture, and I think there's in-undated so much by social media, by Tiktok and Instagram that we're not having a voice and we're not sharing an approach. I was just having a conversation with somebody about this yesterday. Snowboarding and the culture of snowboarding and particularly the culture at A basin in Colorado was one that really formed how I snowboard to this day and how I teach and coach people who are learning, and there's rules of engagement and rules of how we work with each other on the hill and how we talk to one another. And young people are eating that up, and we're just not sharing culture with them. So I just want to, Aaron, say thank you for sharing that. And it's important. 63 And they want that. They want that kind of high quality thoughtful engagement. >> Hi, this is Mary. Lynnea and Andrew and Aaron, thank you so much for saying exactly what I was going to say and what our group talked about, how one of the biggest opportunities we have is to teach and promote these best practices and how we teach has to be individualized. It cannot be blanket across the board. We have to meet people where they live, figure out how they will best learn from these things whether it's through social media. Start them out by if you're going to enjoy playing for an hour you also have to enjoy cleaning up for an hour. How do we do that so that our resources stay pristine so we do not spoil them for our futures. But thank you. I think we are on the right track. It's just how do we promote this. >> You know, Mary, just following on, this is Mark again, just following on what you said, you know, communication is key because in my experience one person's responsibility when it comes to stewardship and conservation is different than another person's 64 definition, and that's where a unified message of giving some context around what that is I think would go a long ways, and as everyone has been talking about, I think there's some wonderful examples that are out there of youth really -- having this type of message resonate. So how do we get more bold on a unified message of what that means that really applies to all outdoor recreational users across the state no matter if you're in the farmland southwest to the bluff country to up north in the woods. >> Mark, I'll throw in on that a little bit. I think the -- we all -- the whole state has the same smaller issues like I say smaller but they're all huge. We have the same issues of garbage being left, you know, not properly taken care of stuff. But then on a larger scale we have regionals like canoe, like here for instance now they've put in systems that drainage systems for the fields so now the water doesn't go to any of the filtrations or the soil and whatever pesticides they use gets thrown into the runoff and goes to the river and everything is affected between there and the river and then down the river into -- and then we have places up north I know where there are pipelines that have some issues. Recently we talked about -- they were talking about 65 opening a copper mine that could affect the boundary waters and stuff like that. I think we have to recognize those larger issues too and kind of figure out as a state where we're going to stand on that stuff and maybe draw some lines on this is where we stand as a state too on some of these larger issues. >> Well, this is Andrew, it looks like we're getting a little bit close to our end time for this topic. Does anyone have any last things they want to add before we take a break? Okay. Hearing none, let's take a ten minute break. So let's come back at 10:51 and we'll continue them with the agenda. Thank you. [Break] >> Hi, everyone. It's 10:51 just to bring everyone back. Just to sort of recap what's the next steps for our meeting today, we'll have some time for group conversation to kind of have our overall reactions to all of the work groups and all of the SWOTs. Then we're going to have about ten minutes or so available for public comments, and then we'll talk about next steps. 66 So pull up the PowerPoint again. So I don't know if anyone has, you know, how we want to kick this off. Does anyone to want share any sort of general thoughts or general reactions from what they've heard, you know, both today this morning as well as yesterday from the SWOTs? Are there any things that stand out that people would like to talk about, share? >> Hey, Andrew, this is Mary. I feel that over the last two days there's been some incredible work by all the groups, the subgroups, pulling together their SWOTs and presenting them and it's a really big subject, and I think one of the biggest takeaways I had was when Lynnea spoke and brought her perspective into this. And I think it kind of completed our picture for us, and so I think that my biggest takeaway is her perspective of the inequalities of outdoor recreation for the state of Minnesota. It was a much needed perspective. Thank you. >> Thanks, Mary. That's great, totally agree. Anyone else have -- 67 >> Hi, Andrew, this is Sarah from the Children and Nature Network again. One of the things that -- that there were some consistent themes kind of across the different work groups. I'm not the first person to say that, but I'm just wondering kind of to Mary's point this is kind of broad and deep and there's just a lot here, and I'm just wondering if there's some opportunity to do some sort of cross referencing and sort of even more consolidating of, you know, sort of this work to really identify two or three really key areas that we would want to kind of hone in on. I know that sometimes when things are too complex, there are a ton of people that Wade through it. I don't know what like the next steps are like what we want to do, what the next step with the SWOT is. But my observation is that there seem to be some themes emerging that maybe we could look at. >> Hey, everybody, this the Matt Gruhn here at the Marine Retailers Association. I would just echo what's been said there. There's a lot here and the themes are very common. You heard the same topics come in in every one of the working groups. 68 And the one thing that I kind of noted here as well is that every one of these groups kind of independently came back and said, hey, there's so much here and it's such a big conversation that it really needs a central focus, an office of outdoor recreation or something along those lines to really pull it all together whether that's, you know, the coordination part of it, the stewardship part of it, the marketing part of it, economic part of it, every piece of this funnels into that need for kind of one overseeing body or office of outdoor recreation or whatever that might be. But I just felt that was one of my big takeaways here. Thank you. >> This is Asha with future outdoors. I can jump in real quick with some yeah, big picture overarching things that I was left feeling about. In many ways it kind of feels like an us and them especially when you're representing communities. Thinking about how do we connect with black and Brown and Indigenous communities. Not just connecting and engaging but how do we bring folks on board so we're not up here and reaching down to get folks. I think something I've heard is just like, you know, we really need to listen to experiences of the BIPOC 69 community, bring their voices to the table. I also though want to just like just be really intentional about not only bringing voices to the table but valuing those voices. You know, it's like Lynnea has talked about some of the experiences that she's experienced like on trail, right? I will say in my experience not on trail but like in my job oftentimes the validity of the programs or the work that I'm doing will be questioned in a way that it doesn't happen to my peers who are white, and so I think we just -- we need to be intentional of like we can say yes, we want to bring folks in and hear what community wants to say but we also then have to be really willing to hear and value and act on what's being said because I think that's a risk for us kind of overall if we don't. And I guess maybe the last thing I would say is just around we're talking about like stewardship and how to get folks like more aware of like ways to be stewards and ways to conserve or land and water, and something that I've thought a lot about and done some work on like the idea you hear about something you may not want to clean the trail or whatever if you've not been on a trail, right? If you don't feel connected to something, you're less likely to take care of it. 70 Same as if you do feel really connected to something you're more likely to take care of it. Right? So I think there's got to be just an awareness of that too. We can't just bring folks out to the woods and be like, hey, you have to clean this now because you're here, but finding those opportunities to, yes, get folks connected and get them involved in our industry and our organization ideally paying them to work with us and then as that connection grows, people become more familiar in our parks and trails -- [cell phone] -- the stewards. So I think those were just some of the big picture things that I was kind of left with in what's been said these last couple days. Thank you. >> Hi, this is Perry from the ATV association of Minnesota. Some of my takeaways here are every group presented that there's a lot of good things happening in Minnesota, so that's good to hear and a good foundation to build upon, so I think we need to keep acknowledging that that we're, you know, we're all here to improve things, but we do have a really nice strong foundational base. 71 It sounds like we can do a lot of things better if we do coordinate, talk to one another, get to know one another. For example, just being on this group, I've learned, you know, six or eight groups that I never knew about before, I guess to be honest didn't care to investigate and now I do. So it's important to know who is currently at the table and who is being left out, and it all comes back a lot to education. How do we educate, you know, Minnesotans more about some of the great things that's happening and the people who are not let's say at the table right now. Thank you. >> Hi, this is Lynnea with youth prize and the met council, and I want to just say thanks for allowing me to join the group and be a part of the conversation. I put in an application because I think we do have a great state with tons of opportunities for people to be connected to the outdoors, which I believe is essential for everyone to be a full person, and it's just about finding that right mix. I want to just amplify what Asha said about experiences in the work as well as on trail or in the campground or wherever traveling between locations that I've taken 72 intentional breaks from the work because it's hard to feel invisible and/or to not be heard, and I would just like to also offer in my short time in the last two days I've really appreciated feeling heard by this group. I'll just admit it's been a really hard couple of years, and the growing tenor of frankly unfortunately just hostility that is more comfortable being shared either on line or in remote nature spaces has just made it hard, a hard couple of years, and I think we can totally do something about that, and I want to make sure that my son and our club members and residents of Minnesota feel comfortable, you know, visiting Luetsen or going on a snowmobile trip in Ely or skiing at Worth Park, and that we don't become our own worst enemies by not seeing each other in their experiences and calling their friends and family members to be their better selves. There's a lot we can do as companies and organizations but there's a lot we can do as citizens of this great state so I think all we have to do is do better and we have this amazing platform to build off of great infrastructure and resources and companies, and if I can be of assistance to anyone, I just want to extend that and again gratitude for being included in the conversation. >> Hey, everyone, this is J.R. from Polaris. 73 You know, I echo what Lynnea just said, and I know Perry is on the call too from ATVAM and Polaris has a strong relationship with that organization, has for years. I think this platform again is a great one for us to figure out ways that we can provide recommendations that begin the initial steps of breaking down barriers, whether they're institutional, subliminal, subconscious or whatever it is. Because even just hearing Asha and Lynnea talk a little bit about their experiences and ways that they think we can be better, it's almost heartbreaking to think that all our collective opportunity as a state is stymied and clearly hearing this conversation along the way we truly have a deep whether it's historical, cultural, personal relationship with the outdoors to even ponder that there are those who are not able to have the same type of experience as you expect for yourself and your community is just completely unacceptable to me, and I know increasingly to the people that I recreate with in the associations that I participate in and I think it's incumbent upon all of us to be the initial bridge if you will to resolving those challenges and, you know, where there are opportunities for Polaris for myself personally to assist with that, I would extend the same offer of support and assistance that Lynnea just did, so 74 I just want to make sure that there's -- we're creating connections here between all of us that hopefully can last far beyond the work we're doing here today or we may complete in a few months. So great conversation for sure and I just really look forward to being a part of the solution, so thank you. >> This is Mark. J.R., wonderful comments. Really inspiring. I think everyone here is of a similar mindset in wanting to use outdoor recreation I think as a catalyst possibly to address some of the bigger cultural systemic issues we have going on, and it is heartbreaking to hear those stories of -- where people aren't welcomed, and, you know, I personally look at the outdoors and the work I do within this space as an opportunity to have some of those more difficult conversations, and it is unfortunate to see some of the reactions. I recorded a podcast. We have two podcasts on our platform. I recorded one about a year ago on the issue of diversity in the outdoors and pushed it out just recently with the title of Hunting for Diversity, and was dismayed to see some of the unfortunate comments. Granted it was social media but to see the unfortunate 75 comments of -- it was actually outside of our state. I will say that. But from leaders, people who are leaders in their own community and pushing back on that type of work. And so I find this very heartening to hear all the comments and desire I think to utilize this issue as an opportunity to bring to light some of the other inequities and I think as a benefit then get more people outdoors and engaged in these wonderful opportunities that every single one of us have. And I guess I will throw out one last thing, which is I think public lands as an example is a great illustration and catalyst for this also because these are places that are owned in quotes by all of us, and everyone should have equal access to these places and feel comfortable in them, and so, again, I think it's a great opportunity we have in front of us to do that. >> Hey, this is Steve with REI. When thinking about the past two days and all the areas that we worked on, access coordination, economic development, promotion and stewardship, I think that each one of those are super worthy, and obviously there was a lot of opportunities, strengths and everything identified with each of those. I think where we're seeing similar ideas in each is how 76 to accomplish those opportunities. I mean a lot have been identified in every single one whether it be through the creation of an office or improved communication or just working to improve the inclusiveness in the sense that the outdoors is for all, I think that's where you are -- where I'm seeing the overlap. Again I think each one of those are super important with very similar ideas on how we can improve the overlap and the similarities for each. That's what I got. >> Hey, all, this the Katy Friesz with Winnebago. My reflections over the last few days are just again an appreciation for the work that the groups have down. Also I'm inspired by this being a beginning, and I think all of us coming into the task force and the work recognize that, you know, this will be an opportunity to potentially make some recommendations to J.R.'s point and others' points that this is not something that happens overnight, so the ability to make sure that we're also engaging and centering more voices, not just listening but also making sure that again to others' points that the communities that we are trying to work together with and represent are actually at the table with decision-making power, so I think that is something 77 that I think we all it's sounding like we're sharing that thought and commitment. So I'm also just, you know, moved to act and to, you know, obviously not get ahead of ourselves but act with, you know, responsible urgency to make sure that we're moving forward on behalf of the state and the outdoors that we all love, so really think that again I hope and anticipate that the next steps in the process will move us forward in a way that's inclusive and also meaningful in the results that we can -- the impact we can have together. So thanks. >> This is Andrew. Asha had made a comment here. Asha, where you wanted to share an example. Would you go ahead. >> Yeah. So just an example of something that happened to me within the last couple weeks is like a month ago I put together a BIPOC out door Twin Cities Facebook group so people who live in the Twin Cities who identify as black, indigenous or people of color and who like to do outdoor stuff so we can all get together and find out who is who. So from that I asked my boss, at my parks and trails job 78 and can I run a BIPOC group and they said yes and so I did that and scheduled a few more. And the folks funding us for this they weren't so sure that it was like a legitimate thing. And I was like we have our registration forms where everybody has to sign a waiver. I'm wearing my parks uniform and I'm wearing my name tag and sending out a follow-up survey at the end so we can get some feedback and I still kept getting push back where are the people coming from and like is this really supported by your organization? Yeah, it really is and I explained that like most of the folks that had signed up for the couple of hikes we had done so far they weren't in our parks and recs system. I think in general a lot of parks and recs stuff it's geared for kids, there's like sports for your kids or activities for your kids. If we were doing a BIPOC while hiking thing and just advertised it throughout our traditional channels, right, we wouldn't have gotten the folks that signed up, most of them, right? So it was one of those things where I'm banging my head against the wall because it's like absolutely this is a legitimate program. We just found people in a different way, right? 79 Because you don't -- if the folks aren't engaging in our program as is, then we go finds the folks we meaning me go create a space so that folks can get together. So I was just -- that's just an example of one of those things where I worry that -- well, I do worry but I also just want us to be really intentional of like things may not look the ways that they traditionally have and that doesn't mean they're less than. I think it's the same like there can be groups like fusion outdoors like we're not a non-profit. We're just like a group of folks that gets together but we do really meaningful work, right? But we won't get sponsored or we won't get supported in certain ways because we're not a non-profit, which is fine but it doesn't take away of the value of the work that we're doing. So that's just a couple of examples that I wanted to share and push our group to be thinking about of just how we're -- how we're valuing and validating work that's already happening in folks that already exist either individuals or communities, and knowing that it may not look the same but it doesn't make it any less. Thank you. >> Asha, this is Lynnea and I just want to absolutely -- I -- the formats for both the public and the non-profit 80 sector are so Riddled with administrative overhead expenses. One, funders don't fund these kinds of groups, so even if you have those kinds of resources or, you know, you're able to do something through a non-profit or through a public agency, the administrative expense is so tremendous you would have to invest so much more in that than just doing the work so as a result you see different groups organizing and doing work as social clubs, 100% volunteer, and so if it's outdoor Afro Minnesota or black girls run or black girls bike or one of the Hmong different fishing clubs or slow roll Minnesota or our club we have five different social outdoor clubs that we organize for snow boarding, cross country skiing, mountain biking and trail hiking, we volunteer 100% of our time because if we were waiting to collaborate with park agencies all the time or organizing as a non-profit and a funder to fund us we will be spending more time to seek that collaboration than we would actually be doing the outings with our group. Not only might it look different but it has to look different. The return on investment is just not okay for a non-profit structure when we're talking about these 81 audiences and I think you see that across all of our communities where social club or a club format is a more accessible format. It's just that I don't know that the agencies and the corporate organizations see these groups as much as they might see an ATV group, for example, or something like that. But I just -- one, thanks for what you're doing, Asha, because I know what it takes, and it is so much, and if we could lean into these groups, there's so many out there and make things easier for them, that would be a huge accomplishment >> Two things. One, I forgot to mention like the reason that I want funding is because I want to take BIPOC people to lead these BIPOC outings which is pretty unique, I don't know a whole lot of agencies that are doing that specifically paying BIPOC people to lead BIPOC specific events. And two, I'm doing all kinds of extra work to do this work and theories a part of me that's like should I run a separate fundraiser with all the folks I know hey if everybody pitches in $50, we can do 25 things through the end of the year and pay Black people, Indigenous people, and People of Color because I don't want people to go unpaid, and I also want our participants to see 82 folks that look like them. So yeah, it definitely crossed my mind of do I just side step this and not do, you know, rewrite this whole thing and prove I don't know how many ways I have proved that it's a valid program. I even included like quotes from our participants saying like hey, this was a really amazing experience and I learned this, this and this. There's only so much of that you can do until you just get, yeah, exhausted. But yes, all of it. >> So your point, Asha, we do pay young people to get certified in snowboard instructing and have had a partnership with Three Rivers Park to support us with that. Also with cross country ski instructing but we pay out of our pocket for it. And I think that this is to your point, we need folks to get behind that because they want to learn. I know many of you probably know Anthony Taylor. We're working really hard to have an opportunity to get people certified with IMBA and a couple other certifications and in partnership with St. Paul College, so this is important work. It's just community members, individuals like Asha, 83 Anthony, they're carrying this weight on their own where other groups get set up to build. They get the seed money to build these kind of initiatives. Our communities are doing it on our own. Convey strong is another group who has been doing work in indigenous communities for a long time around this, and they do have a non-profit format, but we're just not seeded in the same way or supported by industry in the same way that other clubs are. >> Asha: We're not valued as being like an actual thing. >> Well, thank you. This is really great sharing and really great information and yeah. You know, one of the things I was -- a number of the comments brought up is kind of next steps, and before that I think we were going to have public comment but I wonder if it makes a little bit of sense to kind of go -- to go into the next steps just a little bit and then to have some sort of we can continue the group comments from there. Let's see. Go to the slide. So the -- part of the -- you know, we are planning to do 84 some consolidation and cross referencing as referenced to all the topics in the SWOTs. But what we were thinking we want each of the groups to go back with each other and sort of both fine tune their SWOT as well as consider how to, you know, how to reduce threats from their SWOTs, how to take advantage from opportunities, to exploit strengths and remove weaknesses. So the goal is to fine tune and focus those on those topic areas on maybe come up with some brainstorm ideas of possible actions and recommendations. And a few of them have been shared here as part of this group if our big conversation but to have that kind of small-group dialogue and conversation and kind of, you know, working on that. And a little bit of it might be as Randolph mentioned the groan zone, but I think, you know, I think it will emerge out of there because you're right. There's tons of stuff but there are these -- a whole bunch of really unifying themes and also some really strong opportunities. So that was -- you know, there will be more information coming by e-mail. Gratia is going to have a little bit more information, and I'm sort of filling in for her a little bit here, 85 but that's kind of where we were planning to go for next steps, and then when we have our meeting in August, it will be sort of a similar setup like this one. It will be in the morning and the first one will be for the small groups to report back on their potential recommendations based on these conversations and based on further development. And then the day 2 would be to have guess speakers or panel discussion on what other states are doing to accomplish this work, and so maybe a little bits of an overview of whether it's an office or other models to try to connect, what are other states doing, what is Minnesota doing in that context, etc. So that's sort of next step plan. Does anyone want to add to it or add comments? I don't know if either Randolph or John had anything they would like to add or anyone? Oh, Asha, go right ahead. >> Yeah, I was just going to say I would encourage us to think about either uplifting or elevating strength rather than exploiting them. >> Yeah, great point. Great, great point. Thanks. Better wording, totally. 86 >> Hey, this is Katy with Winnebago industries. Just a question. So I'm glad to see that the August meeting is going to include some shared learning about what's happening from other states. I guess I'm unclear on the overall process, and I do think this is a piece of like where we're at in this kind of collaborative space, but just want to make sure that whatever we're refining within our SWOTs, I mean doesn't it make sense to have kind of that shared learning of what's happening from other states before we refine our SWOTs or is there other shared learning as a group that we should be doing or using as guide posts? Just want to make sure that, you know, that the end product or the recommendations are as informed as they should be. >> Totally great question. I think the idea here was to sort of come up with -- to think about some possible ideas but not necessarily fine tuned ideas. Maybe the SWOTs themselves would be a little bit more fine tuned. And also you bring up a really great point and it's one of the questions Gratia and I wanted to ask the group is what additional information do you think you would need 87 and like are there certain types of stuff that we could pull together that would help -- that would help in that. And some of that, if you can't think of the right office right at the moment now, you can e-mail it to us as well. And then also if anyone else on staff has anything else to add. I see something as a chat here. Let's see. Oh, great. So I guess there will be a little bit more guidance coming out on that, but I think you have a great point. >> This is Laura with DNR. >> Hey, Laura. >> Hi there. Yes, I was just wanting to pick up on the last suggestion that was made just about, you know, is there some information sharing to happen further before the -- some of the recommendations start moving forward, and it struck me, you know, if there's anything from staff that we can could to help facilitate with that or work on that, certainly any of us would be happy to do that. And it could maybe be as simple as switching around the orders of those days might also help with making some 88 difference related to that, so that's another suggestion too. Just trying to pick up on what we're hearing here in the meeting. Thank you. >> Yeah, and this is Randolph. And I think as we continue into the next month working in some of the subteams, I think as we start moving from refinement of SWOT to actual recommendations, there's obviously going to come some times where the teams are going to really desire some institutional knowledge from outside or some additional resources to help build those recommendations, so if there's -- if at any time throughout the process throughout the next month where you need those resources to help do the job, we at DNR and EMT will do everything we can to connect you with those resources, whether it's print, whether it's digital, whether it's a person to talk to the group. So just let us know about those. >> This is Lynnea, and I'm guessing just kind of stepping into this mid-process that someone will talk with me about joining a group or how I can aid best at this point. >> Yes, absolutely, Lynnea. We will either Gratia or I will reach out to you and 89 earlier just for your reference in the process we sent out a survey and asked people to identify which sort of focus areas they were interested in being on in a group, so we will reach out to you off line for that. >> I would like to say you're very welcome to be part of our access group [indiscernible] conservation group. Thank you. >> Andrew, this is John Edman. In addition to some of the general information that I sent you from the state travel offices about the status of the offices of outdoor recreation, I don't know if anyone has come across it yet, but I'll send it to Gratia or Andrew. But theories a link from the outdoor industries association that basically -- it's a very -- it's a great information source, and there are links to every one of the -- I think it's like 18 right now offices of outdoor recreation in the United States, and you can click on that pretty simply and just kind of get a quick status. I'm not sure how current it is. I know for instance Oregon has a great example, but I had heard that as of July 1 their funding because of the challenges thee experiencing with COVID they had to eliminate funding for that office. 90 But in any event in response to the question is there anything that people can look at before they get together in groups, if you want to take a look at this, it would give you some good background. >> That's great, John. This is Greg lace from wilderness inquiry and I'm just wondering if we come across things in our day-to-day dealings with outdoor industry folks and other offices around the country, could we send them to you or to Randolph or is there a central point person that maybe we could send some things to? Or to Andrew? >> Yeah, Andrew or Gratia would be perfect for that. >> Yeah, send it to both of us. That would be great. >> That's great. >> Are there any more comments going back to the conversation about the whole day, anything else people want to add before we go to the public question period? We have a moment so it's no big deal if you want to go off, go on more about things. >> Andrew, this is Greg again. I would just say my observation is there's a lot of energy here and a lot of great people and overall it seems like we're kind of on the same page and maybe 91 that's not surprising as I suspect we're all outdoor recreation enthusiasts, so I find it very good and like something really good can come out of this. >> Yeah, thanks, Greg. There's definitely a bit of a preaching to the choir here, but that's -- it's both inspiring as well as, you know, good stuff. Well, let's go then to the public. You know, we can run back again if there are any other thoughts people have that they want to -- that come to them later. Oh, and then just for reference, what John had sent out I think Gratia did include it yesterday she sent in an e-mail. So you guys should all have that in your e-mail. Sorry, I'm getting a text here. So the public, are there any -- let me see who is on -- who is in our public group here. I think if you type in your comments in the chat area, we can -- I can read your comment and then we can see if there's any -- anything anyone wants to add. Madison, can you confirm that there isn't anyone, there aren't any messages? I believe I'm understanding how this works but... >> I don't see any, no. 92 >> Okay. That's good. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't just me. Oh, I see Katy says you did not receive Gratia's e-mail. Yep, so Gratia will resend that out. Thanks. So if we don't have any comments from the public, we can give everyone a chance in case... okay. So it doesn't sound like we have any comments. >> Andrew, we just got one. >> Oh, we did. I'm not seeing it. >> I guess it was sent just to me. Molly Larson said can you make the SWOT slides and other handouts available to the public. >> Yes, no problem. We can include those on the public website. Or I believe that would be how it works. Gratia and I can get back -- can look into that. Sounds good. Any other comments from the public? And thanks, Holly. That was a good suggestion. Okay. Not seeing any, are there any other things that the big 93 group would like to share? It's been a really great two meetings, really great conversations, tons of stuff, a fair amount of kind of daunting next steps perhaps. I don't know if anyone else, Randolph, if you want to say anything or John, go right ahead. >> I was going to mention real quick, with regards to next steps, one other component I wanted to mention. So this work we do as a group is really just one component of moving towards recommendations that can actually be actionable, so in order for those recommendations to be actionable we have to continue to build as much as we can consensus and buy in among other users who aren't currently at the table or stakeholders. So in the coming weeks I think we're probably going to reach out and try to start building another sub-team of volunteers from this task force to kind of discuss how we should go about engaging the public further on developing these recommendations moving them from the ideas that this group has towards the more -- towards a more finalized actual recommendation stage, so keep an eye out in the next few weeks. We're going to be reaching out for volunteers to discuss public engagement and the next steps that we should take in that space as well. 94 >> Yeah, thanks, Randolph. Does anyone else have anything? Otherwise I think we're pretty much finished with our agenda for today. Hearing none, sort of having these intentional moments of silence, I think we can adjourn. Last call. Great. >> I was just going to say good-bye everybody. This meeting gets me excited. >> Thanks, Lynnea. >> Thanks, all. >> Thanks, everyone. >> Thanks a lot. [This text is being provided in a lightly edited draft format, and is the work product of the CART captioner. Any reproduction, publication, or other use of this CART file without the express written consent of the captioner is strictly prohibited. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility, and this lightly edited CART file may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. Due to the live nature of the event, some names and/or terms may be misspelled. 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