LIGHTLY EDITED FILE Outdoor Recreation Task Force Meeting March 24th, 2021 Minnesota Department of Natural Resources (DNR) Remote 1:00 p.m. - 3:00 p.m. (CDT) * * * * * DISCLAIMER This text is being provided in a lightly edited draft format and is the work product of the CART captioner. Any reproduction, publication, or other use of this CART file without the express written consent of the captioner is strictly prohibited. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility, and this lightly edited CART file may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings, nor should it be considered in any way as a certified document. Due to the live nature of the event, some names and/or terms may be misspelled. This text may also contain phonetic attempts at sounds and words that were spoken, and environmental sounds that occurred during the event. * * * * * CART PROVIDED BY Kristi L. Arntzen, RPR, CRC PARADIGM REPORTING & CAPTIONING, a Veritext Company 612.339.0545Captioning-paradigm@veritext.com CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT >> Andrew Korsberg: Welcome, everyone. We'll be getting started maybe around 1:00 or maybe a minute or two after. But thanks for joining. >> Andrew Korsberg: Hey, all. We'll maybe let people join the call here in the next minute or two, and then we'll get started. I'm just sharing the agenda on the screen here. >> Andrew Korsberg: Well, we're at 24. And I think, um, oh, we got 25. So people are still joining. I guess I'll wait maybe another 30 seconds before we get started. >> Andrew Korsberg: Well, welcome, everyone. Looks like we have 27 people attending. We might be getting a couple more people joining. But just to respect everyone's time and keep moving through, you know, through this meeting, why don't we get started. You know, just briefly, welcome to the Outdoor Recreation Task Force. My name is Andrew Korsberg, for anyone on the call who may be new. I'm helping to facilitate the meetings. Next, I think I will pass it to our chairs, CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT Randolph Briley and John Edman, if they'd like to say any opening remarks. >> John Edman: Sure, thanks, Andrew. I'll start out. I didn't really have a whole lot to say right now. We've been at this project for a long time and there's been a lot of great work and effort that all of you have put into it. This is your report. And I just -- I want to applaud you for the time that everyone spent in and all of the side meetings as well as the full meetings. And then we started out this project early on -- actually, Sarah Strommen and I started, and we wanted to think, what does this thing actually look like, the best thing as opposed to us as state agencies figuring it out is to leave it to all of you, the experts in the recreation field. So you've done a lot of great work. I look forward to hearing about your final recommendations. And tweaks. Because I think the things that you've done is going to benefit the entire state. I know it is. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT Because you've done such great work and you have some great thoughts and reasoning behind all of this. We'll have a discussion I'm sure later on about, you know, sort of the next steps. But I just want to start off by saying thanks on behalf of Explore Minnesota and DNR and everyone else. We appreciate your efforts. So with that, I'll turn it over to Randolph. >> Randolph Briley: Cool, thanks, John. Hey, everybody. It's Randolph. I want to quickly echo John on his thanks to everybody. Hundreds of hours I think. It's -- it says in the report. Also want to thank, as always, we want to thank the team at DNR and at Explore Minnesota. For all the behind the scenes work that they put into this. They worked a lot of hours during the week on facilitating these meetings and these discussions, so thanks to everyone there. Finally, I'd like to thank everyone for letting me CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT tag along on this journey. Primarily as a spectator. It's been really inspiring so far. It's -- there's been great work and collaboration. And just being able to watch that happen in real time has been amazing. As John mentioned, this is a grass-roots effort. This is your report. And I hope you feel a fierce sense of ownership for it, because it's really good work. I think we'll get into it later. But I think it also mentions that in the report that implementation now, next steps, are going to require continued hello and really expanded collaboration. As equal partners. Both public sector, private sector, and non-profits, all working together. And enthusiasts, outdoor enthusiasts all working together to move this in concert forward. So as a result of these recommendations, I'm sure there will be a lot of probably immediate questions. But I don't think we can really expect all the answers immediately. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT I think this is a marathon. It's not a sprint. And so we're going to work our way step by step through it. So with that, I look forward to seeing final changes and discussion of what's next. But before I turn it back to Andrew, I wanted to acknowledge that Commissioner Strommen is joining us today on the call and I wanted to give her an opportunity if she'd like to say a few words as well. >> Commissioner Strommen: Thank you, Randolph. And really, I'm happy to be here today. I think I spent some time with you all at the first meeting and maybe somewhere in the middle, and so I thought it was fitting to stepped some time with you here as you finalize the recommendations and really what I want to do is echo the thanks that John and Randolph have already shared. This really has been an incredible journey to bring this group together. To share ideas about the future and some excitement about the future of outdoor recreation in Minnesota. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT And I will also just express that, you know, from my perspective and DNR's perspective, we remain committed to continuing to work with John and Explore Minnesota as well as with all of you and the broader outdoor recreation community in Minnesota to continue to figure out how we implement these recommendations collectively and to bring that community together. So thank you for all the work that you've done and thank you for the opportunity to be here with you today. >> Andrew Korsberg: Thank you, Commissioner Strommen. And I will bring back up the agenda. And so we'll quick -- we'll quick go over the agenda. We start out with introductions. And then after I go over the agenda, I think it makes sense for us to do kind of a quick roll call, just to make sure, to see who's all here. I know there's some phone numbers, and so just make sure we get -- we confirm who's all able to attend today. The first focus of the agenda, after this welcome, is an update on the recommendations document. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT And so the synthesis, the small group, I think they partially -- they're starting to call themselves the bitter end crew, will kind of share information on their conversation. Conversations and updates to the document since everyone has last -- since we last met. And you will have received that in your email earlier today as well as I think at the end of last week or was it on Monday I had emailed it out? Then after discussing kind of where the document sits right now, we will -- we will finalize the recommendation. And so we set up a poll in WebEx. For each of the recommendations. With -- and we were planning to do a Fist to Five, and we can talk a little bit more about that once we get to that section, but the idea was to take a vote on this. You know, earlier on in the task force, we talked about group norms and decision making and the group had sort of landed on that, when we reached this final point or official point, to have some sort of vote. And we were -- when planning for the meeting, we CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT were thinking that the "Fist to Five" would be a good way to help understand and sort of -- understand the task force's views on the recommendations as well as gather, you know, allow members to be able to reflect and share kind of nuances of them. So there's that. And then we'll have some closing thoughts. And then there'll be time -- closing thoughts and kind of what's next, and then there'll be time for public comments or questions. And, you know, I think just -- I mean, I'm going backwards here, back to the beginning, our goal for the meeting today is to, you know, go over the final recommendations document. To sort of come to an agreement if there is one, right, on -- this is their final -- that the documents are finalized, and then to celebrate. Like, this is a -- like, a lot of work has gone into this. You guys have put in a year of your time. The first meeting was in April of last year when the world was totally changed because of the pandemic. And so we've made it through that year. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT And now we have some accomplishments. So that's good. So with that, I will -- oh, let's do the roll call. Here, let me pull up the -- I'm just going to go through -- this is the recommendations document. I'm going to go through the task force members and I'll just highlight your name, and if you're here. So I'll start at the beginning alphabetically by last name. Reinaldo Aponte. Are you here, ray? I didn't see him, so I don't think he's here. Lien Lynnea, are you here? Doesn't look like? Mary Bauer? Hi, Mary. J.R. Burke, are you here? Oh, I see his name. I don't see him having, like, a mic next to him. So I wonder if he's for some reason not able to -- maybe he's just listening. Since I see his name here I'm going to mark it as yellow. J.R., maybe send me an email if for some reason CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT you're trying to speak and it's not working or maybe log out and log back in. Elliot Christensen. See if I -- no, I don't think I've seen your name on the list. Megan Christianson. Think so. Katy Friesz. >> Katy Friesz: Here. >> Andrew Korsberg: Hey. Matt Gruhn. Oh, Matt, he might be on here, but he emailed me and said he had something else come up at the last minute that he wouldn't be able to make it. Though, he did send me his preliminary votes at least. Aaron Hautala. >> Aaron Hautala: Here and accounted for. >> Andrew Korsberg: Great, and accounted for, excellent. Breanne Hegg. >> Breanne Hegg: I'm here. >> Andrew Korsberg: Great, I saw your name. Joe Henry. I don't see Joe. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT Is he speaking up here? No. Hansi? >> Hansi Johnson: Yep. >> Andrew Korsberg: Great. Greg Lais, I think I saw you on the video earlier. >> Greg Lais: Yep, I'm here. >> Andrew Korsberg: Yep, I see you. Perry? Great. Sarah Milligan-Toffler. I saw you, I thought. >> Sarah Milligan-Toffler: Present. >> Andrew Korsberg: Great. Mark Norquist. >> Mark Norquist: I'm here. >> Andrew Korsberg: Great. Stephen Regenold. Oh, I think he emailed me and said he wasn't able to make it. Though I think he was going to email me his information. Molli. I think Molli was not going to make it either. She had also emailed. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT Naomi Sam. Don't think she's here. Asha, I think I saw your name. >> Asha Shoffner: Yep, I, Andrew. >> Andrew Korsberg: Hi, Asha, nice to see you, or hear you. And Steven Voltz. Yep, great. So we've got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, 11, 12 of task force members. Here. So great. Well, with that, I will pass it over to the synthesis small group. I don't know who wants to take the first stab at speaking. And then if you'd like to share your screen, you can go ahead, or I'm happy to -- if it's needed, happy to share the recommendations document too, however you'd like. It's Hansi unmuting or Aaron or Sarah? I guess we had not predetermined who exactly would be speaking first. [ Laughter ] CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT >> Hansi Johnson: Yeah. >> This is Aaron. >> Sarah Milligan-Toffler: Oh, go ahead, Aaron. No. Well, I -- I am not able to share my screen. Andrew. So. >> Andrew Korsberg: Here, maybe I'll stop sharing and then you go ahead. >> Sarah Milligan-Toffler: I'm not able to share my screen. So if you can share -- >> Andrew Korsberg: Absolutely. >> Sarah Milligan-Toffler: I guess I feel like at this stage, I mean, I'm not going to go through line by line on this, but I can just provide some high-level context for the conversations that we had and, you know, what you see in front of you. You know, this group spent quite a bit of time really thinking about creating an executive summary, right? So recognizing that it would be important to create a document that created a little bit of CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT context and background. And, you know, would summarize what would come in the full recommendations below. So you see that. Reflected in this document. Also, we did some, you know, sort of kind of editing across all the documents, just to, you know, try and bring language into alignment. And, you know, not to change any meaning, but to have it look like it was, you know, one whole document, not kind of written by committee. So, you know, hopefully you're seeing, you know, consistency. Between the executive summary and the full recommendations. And, you know, that the conversations that we had as a group the, you know, are reflected throughout, you know, both documents. So that would just be the high-level overview I would give. And Aaron and Hansi and anybody that wants to provide -- Mark, any thoughts, please do. >> Hansi Johnson: One thought I would say is we also were given some input from Andrew, from folks that had emailed in some changes that they CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT would like to see. So we took those into account as well and worked around some of those ideas as well. >> Andrew Korsberg: Aaron or Mark, did you have anything that you wanted to add? >> Aaron Hautala: This is Aaron. I think it's captured well by what's already said. The work that we did do. Sarah captured it right on. Is really look to make sure the total executive summary matched everything up, start to finish. And as Hansi said, took into account the emails and other messaging we were receiving to review that and then put it into this final document. >> Mark Norquist: Yeah, agreed, and I guess I don't have anything else to add at the moment. >> Andrew Korsberg: One thing, you know, I can sort of, you know, share from my memory of those conversations. I think one of the focuses had been about -- about trying to highlight the economic value of outdoor recreation, and then also tying that economic benefit with the diversity recommendations. And how there's that untapped population of people. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT And so that was one part as part of those conversations. There were a few -- a few changes, you know, through here editing, like here's some focus on, you know, you know, that the outdoors generates 2.4% of the state's G.D.P., things like that, that were added into the recommendations. There was a nuanced change. Just -- sorry. Sorry, if I'm scrolling too quick here, I'm just trying to find something. That the group had sort of landed on for consistency with the executive summary and trying to clarify is that under the advancing equity, diversity, and inclusivity, they recommended kind of added, like, changing the name so it was increased participation by advancing equity, diversity, and inclusivity, was one sort of more nuanced change perhaps. Otherwise most of the -- the only changes in the main core of the document were a few editing things. Like they've said. But otherwise that, did the bulk of the content that the small group has worked on is in the CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT executive summary. So if you've had a chance to read that, that really captures -- captures their work and conversation. Are there any questions from -- well, first, actually, is there anything else to add from the small group? And if not, then sort of the question goes to the larger group. What are your -- what are your comments on this? Or questions? Or input? Or is everyone just pleased to see it getting closer to -- or getting, you know, finalized here? There are no -- well, hearing nothing, do we want to go on to sort of the next step, which was the "Fist to Five" voting on the recommendations. I don't want to move too quickly if people have thoughts or anything they want to share. Someone's unmuted. >> Hey, Andrew, we just had a quick question in the chat here. Where is the final draft posted? >> Andrew Korsberg: The final draft is -- we have not posted it on the website since it is CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT still being finalized. But I have it here. If you'd like for me -- if you want to just put your email quick in the chat, I'd be happy to quick send it to you. We weren't posting the draft documents because there have been so many versions of this that it would get a little messy and confusing. But I'm happy to send that out. And then after the meeting, we would post the recommendations. The ones that went out for public review are on the website. Though it's been revised a little bit since then. Oh, Katy, do you want to speak up? I see you just had a note. >> Katy Friesz: Sure. No, just, you know, great work. I had a chance to review it in more detail obviously before -- before the meeting today. But really appreciate the small group's work in accurately representing the process that we went through and really, you know, I know we've gone through some really extensive discussion. You know, through really kind of winding and CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT important paths. And so appreciate you all putting this together in a really succinct and clear and I think effective format. So thanks to the group. >> Andrew Korsberg: Oh, wow, I saw Aaron had a thumbs up in his WebEx. I don't even know how to do that. Advanced. >> Are awesome, Andrew, you got to look into 'em. >> Andrew Korsberg: Oh, I know emojis, I just don't know how it works in WebEx. I'm behind. Well, any other comments? Well, then I think it probably makes sense to proceed onto the next part of the agenda then. I don't want to keep -- to sort of keep the silence there. If people are ready -- is everyone kind of concur with that, that you want to move on to the next -- the finalizing the recommendations? Maybe give me a yes rather than silent -- okay, although, Greg's got his emoji going too. Excellent. Oh, got a bunch of them. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT Yay! Okay, sounds good. Okay. We'll proceed. So here, I'm going to zoom in just a little bit. Maybe -- something just changed. Oh, oh, I see what's going on. >> Andrew, would you like to open up the polls? >> Andrew Korsberg: Well, before doing that, I wanted to share the "Fist to Five" and sort of have a brief conversation about that. Let's see. But I've lost the -- I think I have control now. I'm not sure what's going on. Make sure to save that. Okay. I think it stopped sharing my screen all of a sudden. What happened? Okay. Here, I'm just going to zoom in a little bit. This is easier to see or not. We wanted to use this "Fist to Five" method to sort of better understand some nuances around the recommendations. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT And I don't know if any of you have used it before. Or if anyone else from -- like, if Randolph has anything to say too. But this was just a graphic I found online to kind of help -- to help kind of clarify that -- the idea is that the fist means you really disagree with that. One and twos are sort of, you know, that -- there's more discussion needed on that one. Or, you know, maybe a level of disagree, right? Three is sort of this, I'll go along. Like I'm, you know, maybe, maybe I support it, maybe it's sort of the middle. It's like, ah, it's okay. The four is yes, solid, you know, I support it, I'm willing to help. Five is like I really support it and I'm happy to help lead and be part of it. And so we can kind of understand that the fours and fives are, I support the recommendations. The threes are sort of a neutrality, I would say, a little bit. Or I don't know if others have opinions on how they'd like to interpret this too. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT And then those ones, twos, or threes, are sort of maybe a level of disagreement with the recommendation. Or that it's maybe not on the mark according to your perspective. Randolph, do you think that sort of covers it? Do you think anything else to add? >> Randolph Briley: No, I think you did a good job covering it. I mean, it's a spectrum of consent. And it helps -- I guess it helps us get a better -- like you mentioned -- a better nuanced view as to where people are. Beyond the simple up or down. And it gives folks more of a voice. In it. So that's one of the reasons we wanted to go this direction. I think -- I think, as you said, zero, zero, one, and two, that's clearly unsupportive of. Three, four, and five, four and five, more supportive, four is more of a meh, but you still, you wouldn't oppose. And so that's the basic -- I guess that's the basic layout and framework. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT So I'd ask the task force if there's any clarifying questions before proceeding. >> Andrew Korsberg: Sure. So, yeah, are there any questions or comments? From the task force? >> Andrew, this is Sarah. There was some conversation around doing this and then also potentially doing just a straight up-down vote as well. >> Andrew Korsberg: Yeah, thanks for mentioning that. Yeah, I should clarify. There's going to be five "Fist to Five" questions, one to create the office, and then the other -- then three more for each of the sort of focus areas of the office. And then a fourth one which will be for the entire package of recommendations, and then there'll be a sixth vote for just a straight-up yes/no based on what we had been talking about in the email. And that'll all be on the same poll. So you'll see six questions pop up. So I'm going to stop sharing, because I think that's -- so just remember the "Fist to Five." And, Margaret, you might have to help me. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT Oh. You want to save -- >> Margaret: I can just open it up right now if that's helpful. >> Andrew Korsberg: Oh, great. Yeah, thanks. So I think if you guys, oh, go ahead. >> Margaret: So everyone should be able to see it now. >> Andrew Korsberg: Oh, I should clarify, because this is sort of a open meeting, please only task force members vote. Just so anyone from the public, or from the agencies, I don't think anybody would anyway, but just as a reminder, please -- and I should also clarify, too, these were not going to be anonymous votes in the same way that we did the other sort of straw poll. And so just -- it's just for a transparency -- I mean, we could do a Round Robin, considering there's six questions, it maybe was a little -- that's why we did the electronic polling. So -- so we'll leave it open for maybe a minute or two. Is there anyone having any issues or able to CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT see -- not able to find the polling on the right there? >> Andrew Korsberg: Well, I'm assuming it's been sort of almost two minutes. I just -- in case there were any technical difficulties, is everyone able to -- is there anyone who hasn't voted yet? Maybe just unmute quick. >> Andrew, this is Asha. I need, like, one more minute. >> Andrew Korsberg: Oh, yeah, no worries. Absolutely. So, yeah, here's what I'll do. It says the time lapsed on the poll, it's at two minutes right now. I'm just going to mute and have some silence and we'll go until four minutes have elapsed. And then I'll ask again. Thanks. >> This is a test. >> Andrew Korsberg: So four minutes have elapsed. Is there anyone that needs any more time? >> Hey, Andrew, this is Margaret. We still got about three people still in the CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT middle of the poll. And I don't know how many task force members have voted yet, but it looks like we'll have I total of 16 voters, if that sounds right to you, I don't know. >> Andrew Korsberg: Well, there were only 12 on the call, but we'll see some names. Because I could vote right now if I accidentally clicked on something. >> Margaret: Sounds good. >> Andrew Korsberg: I think we're going to close it. In about five seconds,in -- any task force members objecting to closing it? Hearing none. Last chance. Okay. I think you can close it, Margaret. Thank you. And then Margaret was able to run a quick report from the poll, I think. Oh, great. >> Margaret: Andrew, feel free, if you want me to scroll down at any individual questions? >> Andrew Korsberg: Yeah, let's walk through CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT it. It's a little small on my screen, but I can see it. So just from that Q1 above, it looks like there were eight, nine, ten, 11, 12, 13 task force members that voted. And so I'm wondering, I might be missing someone or maybe I missed someone when I calculated it. And it looks like -- we can validate the names here. Oh, it looks like Joe Henry. I see Joe. I don't think we got Joe earlier in the meeting. I don't know if he was on the call earlier when I went through. Let me check. That'll be the 13th. Yep, that's Joe. Great, we got the right number. Good. Sorry, I'm not picking on you, Joe. I hadn't -- when I did a Round Robin before I didn't see you on the call. >> Joe Henry: Thank you. >> Andrew Korsberg: Yeah, yeah, no, thanks for CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT joining. On the first, creating an office, there were eight fives, three fours, one three, and one zero. So -- and that's -- yeah, that's -- so there's that. So 8, 9, 10, 11 of the 13 support. One sort of neutral. One opposed. You want to go on to the next one? Perfect. So this one is the increased participation by advancing equity, diversity, and inclusivity. There are five tens -- or excuse me, ten fives. One four. Two 3s. And that's where that lands. Okay. Next one. And then you can -- everyone's vote is there too, and we'll that -- we can share that information back. For "Unite Minnesota's outdoor rec community," those batch of recommendations. There were eleven 5s and two 4s, so I would call that almost unanimous support. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT Question four: Unify communication, promotion and public awareness. There were ten 5s, two 4s and one 3. Good, go on to the next one. Ooh. Oh, can you scroll up just a little? This is the overall one. So what are people's overall views of the package? And so it looks like there's eight 5s, and five 4s. And so, like, while, you know, while a number of people have pointed out that maybe some of the nuances of each of some of the recommendations, there may be -- they're maybe not fully on board with, with the overall product of these deliberations, so that's good information to know. And then the next, go on to the last one, which would be the yes/no. Do you approve the executive summary and recommendations document? And so it looks like we have twelve yess and one no. So there we go. Does anyone have any sort of comments or thoughts? And we can share that again if people want to go CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT back to that. And we -- we'll -- we can share that information back to the group after the meeting. So we'll send all that out. Anyone have sort of comments. It looks to me like the majority have supported them. There's a few nuances around creating and funding, and I think the increasing participation by advancing equity, diversity, an inclusion. Is it worth having a conversation about any of those? Does anyone want to -- or do we want to keep moving? Sorry, I see comments here. Hansi, can you speak up? >> Hansi Johnson: I just said well done, folks. This is great to see. >> Andrew Korsberg: Thanks, Hansi. Anyone else have any insights? You guys are a little quiet today. You know, I sort of take it then. I think we have as far as the recommendations themselves, and sort of the primary work of this group. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT Finalized. As far as I understand it. I don't know if anyone else has any views of that? Otherwise, we could then go on to kind of the next part of the agenda. Aaron's got a thumbs up. So kind of the last part is the closing, you know, is the closing thoughts and kind of the question. You know, there's a what's next question, but there's also this what, you know, what can the task force members do to continue to support this work? I don't know if anyone -- if any people have any comments or thoughts on sort of what -- what you as a task force would like to see next. And then also what you think your role can be in those next steps. Or, Randolph or John too, if you want to chime in too, it's sort of for everyone to talk about where do we go from here? >> Well, I wanted to give folks a second, but I can try to frame up my thoughts at least. And maybe that will give folks time to think of. >> Randolph Briley: So as I mentioned in the beginning, first of all, awesome work. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT I'm so -- I'm really excited to see how this turned out. And it's clear this task force was on pretty much the same page. I just want to -- as we start thinking through next steps, I guess, I think, we got to continue to go back to a few things. Really, what we've been saying since day one is that successful implementation of this work is -- it really depends on a continued and equal partnership between government actors, private sector actors, public, non-profit, stakeholders, enthusiasts, all working in concert together. And that was -- that really -- that was really the sentiment that I think we closed out the recommendations with. Was the need to approach the next chapters I guess in this work as -- this isn't really a -- this isn't a hand the baton situation. This isn't -- this isn't the task force is done with their work, they hand the baton over to DNR and EM, and it's up to them to make it all a reality. Success is going to be -- success is going to be collaborative. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT So -- so thinking from a DNR perspective, I think throughout this initial process, throughout the initial development process of the recommendations. It was clear, the DNR had a clearly defined role in that capacity. It was that of working with Explore Minnesota to be a convenor for this conversations, not to jump too deep into substantive discussions but to convene the conversation. And so that now that -- now that that part of the process is over, I think we at DNR have to look at the recommendations and determine what our role is going forward. I'd love to hear from the task force what you think our role should be. In that equal partnership Paradigm. And so yeah, that's -- that's what we need to do. As far as immediate next steps, I think -- and I don't want to color the conversation too much. At the outset. Because I want to hear what everybody thinks. Next steps should be, both from their own perspective. And possibly other sectors that's not their own. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT But I think from our -- I mean, the immediate next step is not to -- not to, I guess, for lack of a better term, not to cut the cord. To maintain this collaborative effort. And so moving into the next phase, we want to make sure that everyone here, as we continue this work, we need to identify a point person that you can connect with. That has an open door to continue to discuss these updates, the status, future actions that we can work on together. And so I can be that person at DNR. And so you all have my contact information. And I expect as well that I'll probably be reaching out to discuss one on one in coming weeks for possibly informal after actions just to hear from you how you thought the process went. And just continue our conversations. But I think -- and so I think that's all I'm going to say right now. I'm happy to continue speaking and answering questions as we go forward, but I want to hear from other folks what they think next steps should be. >> Aaron Hautala: Hey, Randolph, it's Aaron. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT And let's see. How do I even say this? Well, it seems like from a next step point of view, there's a pretty good majority of outdoor task force members that recommended the office, that recommended the recommendations of the office. And maybe more of a point of clarification than a next step, but now that that's done, and we have that in writing, and a vote, what does the DNR and Explore Minnesota do with that? I mean, you have the words. You have the executive summary. You have the support or not support for it. But what is the process internally between your departments or with even in your own DNR department of -- what do you do? What's the next step? How do we engage where you need us to? Or -- because it's completely gray, I guess, in my world. I don't know. I don't know any answers to that. And that seems like a pretty important next step to at least have some understanding of. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT That's -- that would be my first input. >> Randolph Briley: Cool, and just to I think try to respond to that. I think from the DNR perspective, we'd have to -- our next -- immediate next steps is to take the recommendations, because we -- I mean, we intentionally didn't want to pass any judgment on the recommendations until they were done. Because we didn't want -- we want these to be your recommendations. These are the task force -- this is the task force work product. And so I think we need to take them internally and we need to have the conversations that we need to have internally. We need to -- we have seven divisions, and these recommendations could impact all seven. And so we need to socialize this internally and have those discussions. I think in the meantime, folks outside of government, whether it's privacy sector, non-profit, folks on this call, need to be doing I think similar work. In their own respective sectors. Because not everyone represented on this task CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT force. And so there's going to be -- we're going to need to continue to sell the recommendations that you -- that you've come up with to others out there who might not be at the same place. And so I think there's that initial work of kind of socializing, what's in this package? And then identifying -- and then identifying what is DNR and Explore Minnesota's role as government agencies when the recommendation is to set up an independent entity? And so I guess we need to have those conversations internally to see what our role would be in that space. And so I don't know if John has further he'd like to add, but I think that's what I have for now. >> John Edman: Yeah, thank you, Randolph. Yeah, and I think this is kind of the heart of it is, the what new question. What next question. And how does all of this come about? You know, when I look at all the work that you did, the office, yes, it's the overriding piece to it. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT But I look at the elements of what it was that this group was asking, that the recreation community to look at. The emphasis on diversity and inclusion, the emphasis on coordination, the emphasis on communication, the emphasis on bringing the outdoor community together. I think all of those things have now really been ingrained in the thought process of the Commissioner and myself. And everything we do. Some of those things we've been trying to address. But some of them we need to probably address more. And we're going to try to find out ways to do that. Now, when it gets to the actual question of an office, that's the one piece that there's a lot of different directions a person can go. I mean, you could go with a public-private partnership. You could go to it with a sort of a trade association -- a group like this that continues to work together. You could put an office in the Department of Natural Resources. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT You can put an office in Explore Minnesota which was originally what the recommendation would be. It could be a separate office. I don't think those questions have really fully been answered. So it's hard for us at this point to really respond to say what's the best way to get, quote, or an office, because we still, I think there's a lot more questions to that than there's answers. But I want to emphasize that the work that you did on all of the other recommendations about outdoor recreation and inclusion and diversity and communication and coordination, I think those are things that we have to take to heart right now. And we can implement. And we will take to heart every day in what we do. It's just the office piece that is going to take a little bit more discussion. And I hope there's -- there's some further engagement by people on this call with us in how to actually do that. Because, again, as I pointed out, there's just a lot of different ways that that could be done. Some easier than others. But we need to work with you to make this truly a, CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT you know, a -- an effort built from the ground up with all of you as opposed to just Sarah and I deciding we want X or Y. I mean, it's -- we're not sure. We haven't had those discussions on the next step of the office. But that, to me, is the big question that we're going to have to work on and I hope that we can work on it with all of you. >> John, this is Mark Norquist. Thanks so much for those insights on it. I guess, as being part of the larger group as well as the smaller implementation group to the end, I guess I do just want to emphasize the importance of the primary objective of the recommendation being an independent Outdoor Recreation Office, as the way to facilitate those priorities and feeling pretty strongly about it. And I -- that's wonderful that I think both agent -- you know, both Explore Minnesota and DNR taking it inside and, as Randolph said, you know, really sharing it around and digesting it. But I do believe, and anyone else on the -- in the group, feel free to, you know, say differently, CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT but I think the overarching recommendation is -- is the formation of the independent outdoor rec office and I know that's got challenges around it and nobody has the answer right now, but that I believe would the question of, how does that move forward? And who takes the lead on that piece of it? Given that that is the primary -- primary recommendation? >> John Edman: Well, I appreciate that clarification, Mark, about, you know, an independent outside office. And I guess I would like to know a little bit more about what you're thinking about when you say "Independent," because if it is truly independent of Explore Minnesota and DNR, this -- and it's an element that's created by government, then it has to go to the legislature, and that -- the conversations have to start there in terms of the new step, because if Explore Pleticha or DNR created that as a part of our entities, it wouldn't be independent. So I'm realizing the question back to you is how do you envision this independent office? CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT Being structured? >> Hansi Johnson: Yeah, I don't know if we -- or Hansi, did you want to say something? >> Hansi Johnson: Yeah, I was just going to say, I feel like we very clearly outlined that we wanted it to be independent. You know, as far as the work we were tasked to do was really to truly come up with these recommendations and put them forward, whether or not we were actually tasked with figuring out how to create the office, I think that was the next steps that now we'll start to wade into. It may than it has to go to a legislative sort of method to get it to happen. But we don't know that yet. But I think we did a good job of coming up with what we thought the recommendations should. >> Hi, this is Perry May. And I just want to focus on that word "Independent." That is the reason for my dissenting opinion, only dissenting opinion, is the word "Independent." CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT The motorized groups are strongly opposed to an independent agency. So, again, I think to John's point and Randolph's point, that's got to be sorted out. If it goes the route of the legislature, you know, further discussions. Thank you. >> Greg Lais: And this is Greg. I think that, you know, I personally support an independent office myself. I also think, though, that the issue is really sustainable too, that it would be, you know, long lasting. That it wouldn't just be subject to, you know, the next governor coming in. And that's not a comment on Governor Walz at all, but that it would be really a long time -- a long-term office because the issues that we're talking about here will take years to implement. Some of them. And if we're successful, want to continue to work on that. So I want to put a bid for sustainability. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT >> John Edman: But, Greg, let me follow up with that a little bit. So you're recommending something that has sustainability. That it's not subjected to a governor. And I totally understand that. But are you thinking about a creation of government? Or a creation of some non-profit independent? Which would truly be aside from all of the whims. If we are looking to the government to be a part of this, it is going to be subject to funding, to governors, and everything else. So how do you see that happening? >> Greg Lais: Well, thank you, John. That's a good question, you know, because we did explore the idea, I've talked about it with others of kind of having a trade association or a non-profit, having it be somewhat outside of government. And I don't -- I honestly just -- I don't have, like, a really firm view on that. Because I could see it going any number of ways. And I do, you know, I think if we -- if it's CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT within government, I mean, one thing that was advised to us -- or to me was that we try to get it in statute, you know, which does I think involve the legislature then. But I could frankly see it achieving the goals that we're talking about, you know, in a couple of different pathways. And, you know, maybe that's something that we need to explore. >> John, this is Mark. Just in response to that question too. That is something we had discussed a lot and you had mentioned way back last year when we were having the discussions, you had mentioned the idea of a non-profit, and that did pique my curiosity when you had mentioned that. And, you know, where we got to as a group was not being able to make that decision and not feeling like we were equipped or ready to recommend or that was the responsibility of this group. To come up with the specifics of how it would actually work. So I think that's an open question. And that's probably, you know, one of the next CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT steps of priority of determining, you know, if the group is recommending independence, obviously recognizing Perry's not agreeing with that, but the group feeling -- the majority feeling that, you know, independence is important, how does that function, is it inside government, outside government, I think that's a wide open question. >> John Edman: Well, I think a lot of these questions that you're all asking now brings me back to some of the comments that Randolph was making as sort of a point person. That maybe is one of the more significant next steps from all of this is to bring a group together to really lay out what all those options are. You know, particularly with your recommendation of an independent office. But I think, I don't know, about a month ago, when this question first came up, in my mind, I had outlined for Sarah about five or six different options, you know, the -- something as a creation of the legislature, something as a creation of executive order of the governor, something that's truly a non-profit, that's driven by all of you, CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT and this group, something that's some kind of a partnership. Does it live with Explore Minnesota or DNR? There's a lot of options and I think Sarah and I just felt it was a little premature for us to start down that road until we got through this process, but to me, beyond just the implementation of the general recommendations, which I think are just so good and have to be ingrained into the -- into every agency, you know, whether it's DNR or Explore Minnesota, those are the things that we need to be thinking about, and they will. But as far as this creation of an independent office, those options need to be kind of laid out and worked out with all of you, because, frankly, if -- like, Sarah and got set down and said, we think X. It may not be in keeping with what a lot of you are thinking about. So, you know, I hate to say it, but there is a little bit of more work because there's definitely a lot more questions on this particular question of what an independent office looks like. So I'm pledging to work with all of you and to try to figure that out. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT It's just that's -- that's to me, the big unanswered question is how in fact do we do -- and I'm sure you all agree with that as well. >> Randolph Briley: Yeah, I keep referring to the last paragraph in the recommendations where it mentions that all sectors need to work in concert with regards to the recommendations. And I know DNR is going to take a deep look at the -- beyond the office recommendation, to take a deep dive into all the recommendations and see where we can -- see what we're currently doing, which we're doing a lot. But see where we can expand and enhance. Boost our collaboration along the lines that are recommended by the task force so that we can continue to work in concert with or without a current office. Assuming there will be one in the future. But I think as far as an immediate -- some immediate possible next steps, because this is kind of the -- particularly the next steps on what -- how do we take this recommendation of an independent office and make it a reality, because there is gray area, and because this is fairly -- CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT hasn't been done much before. I think our immediate next step would be to identify what the vehicle is, really, or the format for our future collaborations around that question. I know there was some conversations throughout this that there needs to be a yearly convening of -- of outdoor interests to discuss implementation of these recommendations. That's one option. Should we -- should the vehicle or the format be more of a -- more of a series or a campaign of engagements around this question? possibly in the month of June which is Great Outdoors Month. So I think that's a question we need to look at in the short term is how do we want to continue to collaborate on that question of making this recommendation a reality? >> Greg Lais: Andrew, this Greg, and for Randolph, and I agree with what you're saying there. I also think we could take a look at, you know, the other Offices of Outdoor Recreation that have CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT been created in how many states now? Is there 18 or whatever? How many? I'm sorry, I didn't get the number. >> It was 14. >> Greg Lais: 14, because each one is structured a little differently too as I understand it. So there's -- I think we could -- I think it'd be exciting and fun to work with, you know, the DNR and John with tourism and others and this group to try to figure out a model that would work, because, you know, as I was saying, I believe in sustainable. I also believe in funding. And so the other piece to it is, you know, I'm going to want to see an office that actually has a budget to do things. And so I don't think we need to rush into it. But it might be worthwhile to think of a collective brain trust to help figure out what, you know, what an office could look like that would work the best and meet everybody's goals the CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT best. >> Commissioner Strommen: Can I just jump in for a moment in this is Commissioner Strommen. And, Greg, I think your suggestion of maybe not rushing into it is a really good one. And, you know, part of the way I think John and Randolph and I and others have talked about this is, you know, not -- not overpromising and under-delivering, right, to your point. And so thinking through those questions that are going to be really important whatever path we go, whether it is creation of the legislature or is it creation external to state government. You know, people are going to want to know what -- what space is this going to fill that's not already being filled? And where is the focus going to be? And not only where might DNR plug into that and Explore Minnesota, you know, does D.E.E.D. have a role in that? Does Department of Education have a role in that? Where do other state agencies plug into that? And where does the private sector plug into that, right? CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT What's the roles there? What's the role of federal recreation providers, you know, federal government recreation providers. So I think you're right. Thinking through those things a little bit more, maybe if we think about this continuing as an iteration or an evolution of something, I think it's less important that we have the full answer right now, but that we can continue to work on it so that when we do find that model that feels right, you know, we all have the confidence that that is the right model for Minnesota because I think that is where we all started on this journey and that it fits within the framework that we have of, you know, both government recreation providers, nongovernment outdoor recreation providers, and the industry more generally. So I look forward, you know, to those continued conversations. And -- and I think in the meantime, as we're working on that, as both Randolph and John have expressed, you know, there's those other pieces of the recommendation, those other recommendations are things we can incorporate into the work that we do at the agency anyway. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT It doesn't take away from the fact that we still may need an office to do some of those functions and bring that unifying force together. But it doesn't mean we can't kind of run those on parallel tracks. >> Aaron Hautala: Thank you, Commissioner Strommen. This is Aaron, and Andrew likes when I tell this next story. [ Laughter ] I've been accusing Andrew of being a heroic astronaut, John Glenn, for the whole length of this time. And when we were in our subcommittee, nanocommittee, committee of the long term, what I said is basically this recommendation to the DNR and to EMT is like -- and this was before my life so I can't say I was there, but like when Kennedy got up and said, by the end of the year, by the end of year! We'll be on the moon. And that's what we're saying about the outdoor recreation. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT I could say the end of the year. That doesn't mean it's going to happen. But we're putting a vision out there. We're putting a massive vision out there. And when Kennedy said that, at the same time NASA said, what? [ Laughter ] end of the year? How? And then the answer had to have been, well, we have the best minds on this. We have the best country to work on this. Let's work together. And let's make sure we do it. And that's where we're at. It's like we have our recommendations. We have the best we could do in a year. Through a lot of different folks with a lot of different views that somehow came to a pretty darn close outside of one word unanimous decision, you know, and now it's like we're trusting our government, we're trusting the DNR, we're trusting the EMT, we're trusting the elected to work like NASA on getting this to the moon. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT And we'll be there to help you. But we're going to need you to take the football. And run. You know, and that's what you're all saying, so it's nothing new or different. But it's like, we -- we've put out the vision and now it's like, okay. How do we make the impossible possible? >> Andrew Korsberg: Thanks, Aaron. I'm still worried you're trying to send me to the moon or something here. >> Aaron Hautala: You are my cosmonaut. >> Commissioner Strommen: Thank you, Aaron, for sharing that story. And I like it. One question I have is, and I think this is kind of piggy-back on a question John asked earlier too. I guess one of the things I'm hearing, again, we can take the football, right? And I think we're saying, we collectively, we should all take the football. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT but how -- I'm curious on your thoughts of how do you envision the notion of an independent office? With the notion that it should be government that takes the football and figures out how to get to the moon in a year? And so I mean, is part of the vision, you know, government agency establish this, government funds it, and how does that work with independent? And I apologize because of course I haven't been in all of these conversations. So I'm just -- I'm curious if you could elaborate on that a little bit more to make sure I understand kind of how the story you just told and the thoughts on that kind of reconcile with the notion of an independent. >> Aaron Hautala: Commissioner Strommen, good question. [ Laughter ] do I have -- if I had the answer, I would put it in the executive summary. But I mean the main thing is, it's like -- and this is Aaron speaking as a common person, because I don't know how it works. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT Let's be fair to government. I don't know how it works. I just know that how we've made it work in any work we've done together is it starts with something, the state looks at it, just like John said, the state and Randolph said, they look at it, and I think it comes back to a micro-group. I don't know who it is. With honest talk. Straightforward talk. About, here's the options. Here's the challenges. Here's the risk. And really working on that together, and I don't know if that's normal. That doesn't sound normal at all. But you know me. Nothing I recommend is normal, because it's, how do you do this? And then in that frame, being honest about, well, you know, if you really want it independent, you're going to need legislative support, so there's that too. And I say this all not knowing exactly how to do it, but also knowing -- having done baby versions CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT of something like it, that it really starts with a vision, and the state able to look at it, chew on it, and come back with a -- not a pushback, I'm not asking for a pushback, but I'm asking for accountability and truth into, well, what could work? We know this should happen. We feel strongly about it happening. We don't know how to tell you how to make it happen. But we've severely and firmly want to see it happen. And we don't know what to do it next because it's in your hands for a little bit, and then you're not alone. You're not going to the moon by yourself with Andrew. Even though he knows the way. You know, I'd like to think part of us or some of us, and Perry should be part of it, because -- just because there's disagreement doesn't mean that's a bad thing. You know? Compromise should be celebrated. And it's like, let's keep working on it, but not CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT losing the vision of how mighty and high the goal is to get to. That's all. Thank you. >> Greg Lais: Aaron, I think that's great. And this is Greg again. I would -- by the way, I don't mean to, you know, I was there actually when Kennedy said that, and it was by the end of the decade. Well, he died in '63, so whenever he said it. But I think obviously there's going to be a pro and a con for all of the options. I mean, whether it is an independent agency, whether it's within the DNR or tourism or some combination of agencies, whether it's a non-profit, whether it's some other unique structure, every one of them has a pro and every one of them has a con. And I think that, you know, the important thing here is to remember that the goal of this -- I mean, I what I heard loud and clear over and over and over from everybody, the goal of this was to try to create a united outdoor recreation community. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT And that part of the problem, why we haven't been able to advance our goals as much as we would have liked over the last 30 years is because we've been kind of fractured. And so we want to try and unite. And so I think it's really important that whatever structure we have, we think of it in those terms too, that will help to continue to unite the field, because if there's dissent, and let's face it, there will be dissent somewhere, I mean, well, we didn't create this, we didn't do this to divide the outdoor recreation community anymore. We were doing it to try to unite them. I'm comfortable with moving forward with the open conversation with the parties here and just to try to evaluate different models and figure out what could work best. I mean, I think that just seems like a logical next step to me. >> John Edman: Greg, this is John. I just want to applaud and underline those comments. Because you're absolutely right. All the different options, at least that I've CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT thought of, you know, five, six, seven of them, there's not -- no one is perfect. And you're not going to satisfy everyone. On these options. But if we can work with you, or a small group of you, to come up with something that is our best step forward, that's something that we could perhaps unite around. And at the end of the day too, let's say down the road, five ten years from now, it may not be perfect. But in the least it was -- it was a way to take this forward with our best thoughts in mind. And I -- and, frankly, I may have mentioned this at a previous call, but I keep thinking about Explore Minnesota, when we were created in 2004. It was done through an industry task force. That got together and figured out, how can we best elevate this tourism as an industry? And they don't want to become a cabinet level agency, but they wanted the participation of the governor, so that he decided that my position would be directly appointed by the governor. They wanted private sector involvement. So they created this board or a council that keeps CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT expanding. Right now, I think I have 28 -- yeah, 28 members on the council. Members of the legislature. Is it perfect? No. Is it subject to government? Yes. Is it the way we probably do it again if we could do it again? I don't know. But it is what it is, and we've got a lot of things that we have accomplished. So I guess what I'm saying is that the next step is to come up with our best guess, our best thought on how to move this forward. We're not going to satisfy everybody. It's not going to be perfect. But if we could do it in cooperation with you, we could figure out something to put a stake into and just move this forward. Because I mean, the worst thing to me would be is if we -- we left this meeting, and you felt, oh, yeah, nothing's ever going to happen with this, and it all just kind of fizzles yet. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT That would be just a complete waste of everybody's time. And I think there needs to be some significant concrete steps, but as you said, Greg, it's not going to be perfect, but we at least have to come up with our best thought on how to take this to the next level. >> Hey, everyone, this is J.R. Can you hear me okay? >> Andrew Korsberg: Yes. >> J.R. Burke: You know, I've been -- Andrew, I was on the -- I've been on the entire time and I'm just kind of listening in and participating. And I think, you know, as we have this conversation about what's next, I always go back to the vision statement that the smaller group and all of us together have had input over this process. And I think that's the logical starting place. And, you know, that -- that conversation that starts from there is nondenominational. It's inclusive. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT It doesn't put one type of outdoor recreation in front of or behind the other. And if all of us as stakeholders in this, whether it's us as individuals or as Representatives of our respective organizations, are truly committed to that vision, then there is -- it certainly lessens the risk. Of any one individual stakeholder feeling as though they're left on the sidelines while the others advance the ball. And so I think it's a -- it's an important conversation for us to be having about how do we ensure that the vision remains intact. That there's adequate commitment behind those who are figuring out, you know, the what's next of this work. You know, I -- I am a member of and, you know, regularly participate in a type of recreation that others may not be too keen on. or seeing policy advanced in favor of. Yet I, and others who own the products and participate in the types of recreation that I represent often participate in very different types of recreation in Minnesota. We are outdoor recreationalists at its core, CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT regardless of what type of recreation we specifically choose to participate in. At any one time of the year. Or with -- whether we include our families or not or friends or not or whatever the case might be. It might just be for ourselves. But I think that's what's really unique about this opportunity here in Minnesota is that we have an opportunity to take the good work that we've already done and say, we are committed to inclusivity of all types, whether it's gender, race, form of recreational, regional disparities, socioeconomic status, you name it. And say, regardless of anything, we are for inclusive outdoor recreation regardless of what type of outdoor recreation that you choose, where you do it, or how you choose to do it. It doesn't have to be a zero sum game. If one person gets this, the other person doesn't get that. That, I think we can all agree that we are blessed with resources here in this state. We are blessed with companies and organizations, non-profits, and a state, frankly, that has done a tremendous job of funding and participating and CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT encouraging outdoor recreation. It's now an opportunity for us to take those tools and take those opportunities and put them behind a vision that advances outdoor recreation not only to our own individual benefit, maybe that benefit of our association, or our enterprise, whatever type it is, but ultimately to the users, the folks who go out and buy camping passes and trail passes and, you know, ski and hunt and fish and motorized recreation, whatever type of pursuit that you choose, benefit from that, both socially, mentally, physically, all those things, and then see the downstream benefit to our economy. And that benefits us all. And so I -- I appreciate that there are some skeptics in -- in terms of, you know, how or whether an outdoor office is necessary. There's legitimate conversations about how those things are advanced. But, you know, I am very motivated by the sentiment that Aaron has shared today and has continued to share over time that you know what? Minnesota has never shirked from doing or thinking really and then going out and doing big things. And then we've got some really great companies, I CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT would like to say my own included, who also think big, and go out achieve great things. So this is definitely doable if we are all on the same page as well as the organizations we represent. So my two cents. Thanks for listening. >> Andrew Korsberg: Yeah, thank you, J.R. >> Hey, Andrew, if I could ask a question? >> Andrew Korsberg: Absolutely. >> Okay, thanks, everybody. This is Shannon Lotthammer. I've been kind of one of the folks listening to your conversations and really learning about all the perspectives that you've brought forward and the things you've been talking about. You know, one of the things that the conversation today is particularly in the last half hour or so has gotten me wondering about regarding your recommendations, and maybe it's more something for you all to think about as you all think about how CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT your organizations and you individually can participate in moving your recommendations forward is just that question about, how to engage other voices as well, you know, recognizing that this task force was and is a diverse set of perspectives on regarding outdoor recreation as, you know, J.R., as you noted from various different perspectives regarding types of recreation and -- and types of people who recreate as well. But I'm just kind of thinking about the fact that even so, this is a limited group of people. And there's a lot of other people that are interested in this area as a whole. And definitely will be interested in your recommendations. So, you know, as you think about kind of further discussions about advancing the -- the things that you're bringing forth, whether it's the office piece or the elements that are also included, just curious or just planting a seed to be thinking about who else to bring into the conversation. Thank you. >> Andrew Korsberg: Thanks, Shannon. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT Does -- does anyone have any additional comments? Or thoughts? >> Aaron Hautala: Hey, Andrew, it's Aaron again. The only other thing I'd suggest is just for my own brain. And I'm by no means needing a date for tomorrow or another meeting next week. But as the DNR and EMN digests everything that's in those pages and their good discussion today, it's just kind of be nice to have a frame set around, like, when would a reengagement happen? And I'll obviously raise my hand and advance to be a part of any team that would be a part of that with the state. But that would just be good to know, you know, for me, up front, is that like three months off? Or maybe you can't say. Maybe there's way too many meetings that need to be had before that said. Because it seems like we're in a old-fashioned raging agreement of kind of what to do, and, you know, that it's going to be an us thing, not a them thing. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT And that's good. And then to just want to know, okay, when could I mentally plan around that? Whatever it is. To happen again? [Overlapping conversations] >> This is J.R. again real quick. You know, I think to Aaron's point, I think those of you on the call from Explore Minnesota Tourism and DNR, I think, you know, your perspective, you know, understanding, you know, the governor's budget has already been issued. There's a supplemental budget that's already been issued. The House and the Senate have both submitted their budgets for the target, where we are in session, all those things are legitimate discussion points to setting expectations of task force members as to what's achievable now versus, you know, what I would suggest is a future conversation. Because not everybody operates and lives in those circles day in and day out. So if there's a discussion around a government entity or a quasi-government entity that would CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT rely on state funding to stand it up and to source it, you know, there's some head winds to that at the current time, so I think your perspective would be illustrative for this group. >> Andrew Korsberg: Yeah, thanks, J.R. Are you -- so two sort of comments. Aaron's asking sort of when. And then J.R.'s commenting on the kind of where we are currently, like in the legislative side. Would you like me to try to answer some of those? Or, Greg, you want to say something too. maybe you want to speak first? >> Greg Lais: Yeah, I was -- thank you, Andrew. Because those are good questions. But I also think, it seems to me that, you know, Commissioner Strommen and Commissioner erred man here are reaching out to the committee to say let's work together to figure it out. And that's kind of what I'm hearing. And we've all had a lot of calls and this has taken a fair amount of time. But I think it might be interesting at some point, CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT if people could wave their hands, who would be willing to work, who would be willing to stay engaged to help figure out what the best structure to be. So I guess I would ask who, and since we have everybody here right now, we could at least take a straw poll and see who at least would still have the energy and gumption to do it. >> Andrew Korsberg: So the question is, is the thumbs up a conversation. Maybe you want to speak up and we can quick write down the names just to confirm. >> Greg Lais: I take their thumbs up as they're saying. >> Sarah Milligan-Toffler: This is Sarah. Since not is on the call here today. I mean, I think it's fine for people to raise their hands now. But, yeah, maybe we could do a follow-up by email. Yeah. Because I -- I mean, I would be happy to help, but I've got some considerations around. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT So it's not just an up or down for me. >> Andrew Korsberg: Sure, I can send an email out after the meeting and try to clarify that. That's a great idea. And then just to answer -- I mean, and anyone else from the agencies who have any insight into this too, feel free to chime in. Just to respond to J.R.'s comments about the legislative session. You know, I think you're right that just -- it seems to me like we're probably too far down the line in this legislative session for it to be included. But, you know, crazier things have happened, I know. So I, you know, I'm not saying like a complete no. But I would see that that would probably be unlikely for this session, which then sort of goes into that when that Aaron is talking about, and then Greg is sort of saying who. And, you know, I think there's -- I guess I don't have a good answer for when exactly, other than that we, you know, we want to keep, you know, the agencies want to keep working with you on those CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT details. So I guess unless someone from the -- someone else from the agencies has any more insight, or I guess I'm not sure. I don't have a good answer for that. >> John Edman: Yeah, Andrew, this is John. And I don't -- I don't want to necessarily volunteer Randolph's time and trying to bring a group together. But I just want to speak to the question on timing. I think it's J.R. mentioned, yes, we are getting pretty far in the legislative session. Nothing's impossible. However, the first question has to be, what is the "It" that we even want the legislature to take a look at? Or do we want the legislature to even stay on the sidelines and do something through executive order, et cetera. So I think the times as far as this legislative session is such that we're going to need some time first to figure out what is the structure, how we want the legislature to or to not be involved. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT Once we get through that, then we could take it to the next step and by that time, more than likely, with a little luck, the legislature will be all done. And I only say that because I love the legislature so much. But hopefully they'll be done by around May 15th. So I don't know. I'm just -- Randolph, I'm just -- you know, I'll throw the timing off to you. But I think we're probably going to need to get together with DNR and Explore Minnesota and kind of lay out as what we see as some of the options from our perspective, and then bring the group back together, whoever volunteers to kind of walk through that, to go through the pluses and minuses and try to come up with some recommendation for that. But I think that would probably take, Randolph, at least a few months for us to get all of that together. Your thoughts, Randolph? >> Randolph Briley: Yeah, I would agree. I think -- I don't do -- I don't do the state. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT I'm not tied into the state legislative work at DNR. But I did do federal work for over a decade, and I think just looking at where we're at in the session right now, I think it's highly unlikely this time around. There are opportunities. And there are ways in the past to air drop items into conference bills. But that's really unique situation. And highly unlikely. So I think looking forwards possibly next session as a rough time frame. And the hopes of getting maybe a draft framework of what this group and even broader engagement outward, other groups might like to see as a structure for a independent task force or not task force, but office. I think a couple months, especially if the goal is to go the legislative route. Then you'll have to maintain that time frame, obviously. If you want to get on the calendar next time around. But I wouldn't completely foreclose the option of CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT it becoming a completely independent 501(c)(3). I think there's a ton of different possibilities still remain and that discussion need to happen at the front end in the coming months. >> Greg Lais: Well, this is Greg, and I agree with you, Randolph, and I think that's to John's point of the what. I mean, if we could, over the next couple months or whatever time frame it is, come up with a what, that we all like, or that most of us like, you know, and then try to sell that collectively. I think we'd stand a better chance. >> This is J.R. again. I'm really zeroing in on this part of the conversation. You know, and I think whether it's for the benefit of the task force members or the members of the public who are on the call, perhaps, the staff could just share what the obligations are of DNR and Explore Minnesota Tourism to communicate out the final recommendations of the task force. To, you know, the governor's office, members of the legislature, whoever else. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT I mean, maybe you can just help reiterate that so we have a grounding in that. >> Andrew Korsberg: So I can -- and maybe this is more procedural than exactly what you're asking, J.R., but I can clarify. Like, so what we'll -- after this meeting, we'll post the sort of final recommendations on the ORTF website which is on the DNR web page, so the content will be out there for public, you know, for anyone in the public who wants to access that information. You know, that second question of exactly what, you know, what role the agencies will play in sharing that broadly, I guess we -- I guess I don't know the answer to that. I'm not sure we've had that level of conversation, sort of what the next steps are. I don't know if anyone else from the agencies -- someone unmute? Randolph or John? >> J.R. Burke: And if you're looking for the answer that, I think the reason I asked the question or requested that grounding is, you know, CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT ultimately, you know, the task force as a whole or individuals or, you know, segments of this task force, whether in organized fashion or on their own, can certainly reach out to their members of the legislature and educate them on, you know, what the recommendations of the task force were. You know, the governor or his staff may see the outcomes of these recommendations and they themselves can propose policy as well. So it's not necessarily a one size fits all process. It's one where there is a back and forth. There is a process of educating policy makers. Whether it's at the executive level or the legislative level or whatever the case might be. But I think it's important just for everybody to understand that this is an ongoing conversation. There's no one size fits all. I think we've all come to an agreement on that. And there's maybe not one best answer at this point. But at some point, there's going to be a communication on what the recommendations of this task force are in their final, you know, status. And at that point, it's going to be up to policy CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT makers and stakeholders to figure out, you know, what, if anything, is done from that. So it is an ongoing conversation. And of course, you know, as others have alluded to as well, the timing is subject to the session and budgets and so on and so forth. So I just -- I wanted to lay out that context because there's a lot of people on this task force who maybe don't operate on a day-to-day basis as a part of their job or otherwise in kind of that policy making space. >> Randolph Briley: Yeah, and I think those are really good comments. In the immediate term, we can take these recommendations and we can work on scheduling a meeting with the governor's office to answer questions and loop them in on all this awesome work that's been done by the task force. That's easy enough I think. When it comes to the question of socializes with legislators, we could possibly do that too. I think it might have more impact if individuals went to their legislators and did it. Or we could do it in concert. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT I think there's a number of options. Along that route. >> John Edman: And this is John, and I'm not sure this really addresses J.R.'s comments as he was really focusing on policy makers, my assumption is that after this meeting, that report will be final. I'll pledge to make sure I communicate to my industry. We have a database of thousands and thousands of people throughout the state. That are very interested in tourism and recreation. And so that we'll provide them with the results of this, and, you know, and ask for their feedback as well. Which will help. As far as, you know, going to legislators. That's something I would encourage all of you to do at this point. Right now, I don't want to speak for Sarah, but I'm not clear exactly what the ask would be of the legislature. We just tell them, this is what we've done. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT When you do that, you're going to maybe get a result that you didn't expect if you don't come one a solution on it. But we'll do everything we can from our side on Explore Minnesota to communicate this to as wide a audience as possible. >> Andrew Korsberg: Thanks, John. Yep. Are there any other -- any other things on people's minds they want to share? It's been a really fruitful conversation. I know when we started the meeting, people were a little quieter as we were finalizing the document. But I really appreciated everyone's comments and this really thorough conversation has been nice to have. And informative. >> Greg Lais: Well, Andrew, this is Greg again and I would just say, you know, to me, when I think of this document and the work of all these people that we put into it, speaks as a Minnesotan, you know, I'm very proud of it because I think it really -- it speaks to the inclusive CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT nature of Minnesota and the importance of kind of unifying our community and welcoming everyone in the outdoors. And, you know, we heard a lot of stories about how that, you know, hasn't always been the case. And so I think especially now with everything else going on, you know, whether that's the Chauvin trial or all these other things happening, I just think to come out with a strong, positive, inclusive statement from the diverse group that is this committee, you know, we're giving voice to "One Minnesota" really, I just think that's really a message that I love. And I hope everybody else does too and that we would get behind this. We may not always have a four or a five or whatever it is, but that we would get behind it and look at the real positive outcomes here, and yeah, there's still work to do and we'll figure it out, but let's celebrate this moment. >> Andrew Korsberg: Yeah, thanks, Greg, and that reminds me of something too, that, you know, it -- the, you know, we would recommend you as task force members too to take the final results CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT of this process and share it with your networks as well. And so, you know, that's -- that's one of the strong value -- I mean, look at all the people we have here, right? And how all your connections and all that. And so that's another important place for you to go with your -- with the recommendations too. >> Aaron Hautala: Andrew, it's Aaron. It the DNR then releasing the final recommendations like you've done other press releases throughout the process. Here's the final recommendations, is that a story that'll be out in the next weeks or so? Or just from that point of view? >> Andrew Korsberg: So, yeah, after the meeting, I'll work to get the website updated and get everything out there in the public sphere. I know we have had some inquiry, some media inquiries about it. I didn't think there was a reporter from the Duluth tribune that had been interested in the recommendations. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT And so, you know, I guess I don't know specifically if we would do a press release or not. I'd have to yield to sort of the whole agency team on exactly what we would do. But on my end, I know for sure I was going to have everything up and available on the ORTF website as soon as we could. So that, you know, you guys can proceed, anyone can proceed and have that information. Well, are there any other comments? Questions? Part of the conversation? Because the next thing on the agenda was sort of the public comments. But before we went there, I just wanted to make sure we were ready to move on or not. Okay. Hearing none. I think we'll go to sort of the public comment question period of the -- of this. And so I know we have a number of -- we have 32 people on the call. And since I know 13 were task force members and a number were agency, we do have a number of people CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT on the call that are from the public or paying attention. I don't know if anyone -- if you have any questions, feel free to maybe, you know, oath of either unmute your mic and start speaking, and if everyone starts speaking at once, then we can use the raise hand feature. But now's the time if you have any comments, questions for the task force. >> This is Holly Larson with the National Park Service. >> Andrew Korsberg: Hey, Holly. >> Holly Larson: Regarding the what to do next and the Office of Outdoor Recreation recommendations, my understanding of the discussions, as I've been listening in was that an independent office would be something -- would be within the state government, but outside of DNR and Explore Minnesota. That was my understanding of what those words meant. And to me it feels like a step back to now CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT consider whether it should be a non-profit. I'm wondering if the task force -- if you meant to have -- and a non-profit or some other form that doesn't have to do with the state government. Why were the words "Office of Outdoor Recreation" used? And in looking at those other states that have put together these -- they're -- I don't believe there's any examples where it's a completely independent non-profit. All of the -- that's the intention is to have it embedded in state government. So that the recommendations are part of state policy and get followed. So that's my thought on that. And then also, a press release I think is certainly something that you should do. This is quite an accomplishment to deliberate for a year with this diverse group. So DNR or Explore Minnesota, do what you can to get the word out on this. This task force deserves that. >> Holly, this is Aaron Hautala and I just wanted to reply to your answer and -- but, number one, CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT thank you for listening to all these meetings, because you have. [ Laughter ] that's a -- that's an amazing feat that deserves applause as well. The recommendation was as you intended as you read, it was to be an independent within the state government. Outdoor -- it was not to be an independent non-profit. That's what the recommendation was. That's what the majority of the support was for. I think just after the vote was made, that's where the discussion came up about non-profit. And I don't think at least myself, I've agreed to that yet, but I've also agreed to that we should -- we should collaborate and think through how this works. You know, and that's the next step possible. But the recommendation just to draw that line in the sand as you just asked us to is really independent with not part of the DNR, not part of EMT, but within the State of Minnesota. And thank you for listening, again, and being a CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT part of it. >> Andrew Korsberg: Thanks, Aaron. And just to reiterate, yeah, thanks, Holly, for all your contributions as being and listening to these meetings and being there. So thanks. Are there any other comments either from the task force? Or from the public? Well, hearing no more. I think -- I think, you know, I just want to congratulate you all for, like Holly had mentioned, this accomplishment. That you guys have done. By, you know, meeting -- being patient with us over this virtual way of connecting, you know, it might have been a whole another reality if we all could have been in person like we have been in the past -- or like, before COVID. But I appreciate everyone's, you know, patience with the technology. And -- and, you know, participation. And everything. And so, you know, it's a little daunting to be on CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT a 30-plus person, you know, WebEx call. And so appreciate everyone doing that. So congratulations. You know, thank you for all your time. I know this is not -- this is not necessarily been easy to have all these meetings. But, you know, it's been really great. So I don't know if there's anyone else has any other -- you know, I think we're sort of officially done. But it's now just kind of a, you know, wrap up here. >> John Edman: Andrew, in addition to thanking everybody on the task force and to thanking all the great work, and I look forward to working with all of you or a few of you, as we take the next steps. But just wanted to make a final comment and thank you for DNR, thank you, Andrew, for all your work. And trying to keep these things in order, picking up halfway. And everyone else at DNR that's working behind the scenes to help with this process. And I just personally want to thank you very much. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT >> Andrew Korsberg: Yeah, thanks, and Gratia, and also thanks to Gratia too for all her work up until recently. She sent me pictures of her baby just today, and they were very cute. So thanks. >> Cool, I had asked Andrew if he could get some virtual balloons that could fall from the virtual rafter when this -- when these recommendations were approved, but we couldn't make that happen at the last minute is a fortunately. >> Andrew Korsberg: Where are you guys getting these GIFs in the thing? What am I missing? >> Like, at the bottom of your screen, there's a smiley face. >> Andrew Korsberg: Oh, the smiley face, oh, got it. >> Just real quick, I wanted to endorse the CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT comments that the last comments that Greg made. >> Randolph Briley: About just taking a moment to celebrate. And to recognize that the words of this document I think are really meeting the moment of our time right now. And we can continue to -- it's real exciting to, while it's bittersweet to close this chapter to look toward the coming weeks as we continue these discussions to turn these words into reality. So I think -- I don't know if Commissioner, if you have a few words of -- of farewell for the task force? I saw that you came off your video. >> Commissioner Strommen: Ohs, I was just applauding for the committee and for Andrew and Gratia and the rest of the team here. So, no, I'll just once again say thank you to this entire group for all the work. And as John and Randolph and others have said, just look forward to continuing the conversation. And in the next steps together. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT >> Andrew Korsberg: Thanks, Commissioner. And then one last -- I see Lynnea has her hand raised and has joined. >> Lynnea Atlas-Ingebretson: I just wanted to make sure I said thank you to everybody. And I put stuff in the chat, you know, just wanted to let you know that I'm available for a bad game of golf, a round of golf, if anyone's interested or biking or hiking in North Minneapolis. And extend that invitation to everybody. And I'm just grateful to have been a part of this work. And just want to say thanks. And hope -- and I believe fully that work only ends when we allow it to end. We make up our institutions. So I invite folks to continue to engage and engage me. And happy to be a part of continuing efforts. >> hey, Andrew, this is Hansi, I'd just like to say thanks to everybody as well and just that after a year of work and working with so many different people in so many different people who CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT represent different activities and different spaces within the outdoors, that there was never a time where I had any sort of negative interaction with anyone. And that it was really a super great, I think, example of just how we can all work together. As a group. And moving forward, hopefully we can keep that momentum going. But just super happy to have met everybody and thanks for the work that you put in this year and look forward to hopefully meeting you all in person at some point soon. >> Andrew Korsberg: Well, thanks, Hansi. >> Greg Lais: I second that, and I think Hansi has offered to have a big beer party up there in Duluth? About August or so? So we could actually get together and see each other. All the thumbs up are going around now. So -- CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT [ Laughter ] >> Andrew Korsberg: Well, thanks, everyone. It's been a real pleasure. And we don't have to close the call. So we can leave it open here if people have more to say. But I think we're -- I think we've -- I think we can check this part of it off the list and we'll go on to the next part. So thank you everyone. Take care. Have a good rest of the week. And we'll hope to see you all soon. >> Thanks, everybody, bye. >> Thank you, Andrew. Thanks, everyone. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Bye, everybody. >> Thank you. DISCLAIMER This text is being provided in a lightly edited draft format and is the work product of the CART captioner. Any CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT reproduction, publication, or other use of this CART file without the express written consent of the captioner is strictly prohibited. Communication Access Realtime Translation (CART) is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility, and this lightly edited CART file may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings, nor should it be considered in any way as a certified document. Due to the live nature of the event, some names and/or terms may be misspelled. This text may also contain phonetic attempts at sounds and words that were spoken, and environmental sounds that occurred during the event. CART CAPTIONING FILE – NOT A CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT